Stacey Abrams says 'no such thing' as 6-week fetal heartbeat: 'Manufactured sound'

Sorry didn't realize the young black kid shot dead by Zimmerman wasn't the "innocent human life" you like to protect


How about the 2 lives Kyle Rittenhouse took, do they matter?

 

Oh sorry thought we were talking about what science and doctors call the future humans, you know fetus's until their born!!

 

Your prior post just negated this post. Cents this does not make.

 

are you for killing infants too? If not, why?

 

Please do tell how an ultrasound is picking electrical activity.

 

Is "what makes you you" the legal threshold for killing you?

 

Fetal heartbeat’ in abortion laws taps emotion, not science
By JULIE CARR SMYTH and KIMBERLEE KRUESIMay 14, 2021

Snips:

"That’s because at the point where advanced technology can detect that first flutter, as early as six weeks, the embryo isn’t yet a fetus and it doesn’t have a heart. An embryo is termed a fetus beginning in the 11th week of pregnancy, medical experts say.

“You cannot hear this ‘flutter,’ it is only seen on ultrasound,” said Cackovic, a maternal fetal medicine specialist at Ohio State University’s Wexner Medical Center, where some 5,300 babies are born each year."

cont:
https://apnews.com/article/abortion...itics-health-77c9ba98c4f4ab46fdbd5bcc47b5b938

 

LMAOROG

 

No, they have a mind, therefore they exist as morally relevant beings

 

Hahaha! Says who?

 

Fair point, I wasn't as clear as I could have been. It's detecting the muscle twitches caused by the electrical activity, the point being that it isn't a full heat beat at that early stage, it is just one point along the development process that we happen to be able to clearly detect.

The key point here is that this entire process of detecting "fetal heartbeat" at this early stage has never been about the specifics of whether the fetus is human or a person, it is just about identifying defined characteristics which can indicate exactly how far along in gestation the pregnancy is. It wasn't chosen for these abortion laws because "having a heartbeat" was already any kind of key measure, it was chosen because it happens to be one of the first clear measures of gestation period and because of the emotive element of ultrasound images and hearing the heartbeat of developing fetuses (though ironically, most of that public perception comes from much later in pregnancy).

 

Yup, on par with prior posts.

 

The definition of a heartbeat is a pulsation of the heart. The "muscle twitch" is a pulsation. Nobody believes that the heart at 6 weeks has the full capability of a fully grown human heart. But, that pulsation is a heartbeat. All of this other nonsense is just political activists trying create a division for political purposes and not scientific ones. What you see on ultrasound is that continued pulsation that will never stop until heart failure. It is not fake electrical signals that men created to control women or whatever other stupid claim activists make to run away from the science.

 

''Cents this does not make.''

cents

1. 1.
   a monetary unit of the US, Canada, and various other countries, equal to one hundredth of a dollar, euro, or other decimal currency unit.
   "he was paid 40 cents an hour"
   • 
     
     
2. 2.
   MUSIC
   one hundredth of a half step.

since
/sins/

preposition

1. in the intervening period between (the time mentioned) and the time under consideration, typically the present.
   "she hasn't spoken to him since last year"
   

conjunction

1. 1.
   from a time in the past until the time under consideration, typically the present.
   "I've felt better since I've been here"
   
   
2. 2.
   for the reason that; because.
   "delegates were delighted, since better protection of rhino reserves will help protect other rare species"
   

adverb

1. 1.
   between then and now.
   "she ran away on Friday and we haven't seen her since"
   
   
2. 2.
   ago.
   "the settlement had vanished long since"

 

I'm citing the textbooks and medical sources.

The spark of life which is the key to the heartbeat and which stimulates the surround tissue making up that heat at the stage. Stop arguing with the doctors and science.

The heart of an embryo starts to beat from around 5–6 weeks of pregnancy. Also, it may be possible to see the first visible sign of the embryo, known as the fetal pole, at this stage.

The heart of a fetus is fully developed by the 10th week of pregnancy. Learn more about the development of the heart from weeks 5–10 below:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/when-does-a-fetus-have-a-heartbeat

"The heart and circulatory system of a fetus begin to form soon after conception. By the end of the fifth week, the heart of the fetus is able to pump blood throughout its body. "
https://www.stlouischildrens.org/he...ulatory system,pump blood throughout its body.

 

Denial that it's human life in order to justify the killing of a baby

 

I actually suspect many people do and I certainly believe that was the intention of specifically using detection of "fetal heartbeat" as the cut-off in the new abortion restrictions, rather than simply stating "6 week gestation", regardless of the clinical means used to determine that. It makes it more of an emotive question rather than just a practical clinical one.

The "created" aspect referred to the heartbeat sound generated by many obstetric ultrasound machines (though ironically, not usually the vaginal ultrasound typically used in early pregnancy). They use ultrasound to detect the motion of the blood and generate a simulated heartbeat sound based on that detected motion.

I still totally agree that Abrams overall take on this is irrational, especially in the context of the "controlled by men" aspect, but she is not making up the underlying technical aspects (though is misunderstanding or misrepresenting some of them). Her statement is certainly ridiculous but it still highlights how the entire issue of "fetal heartbeat" as the cut-off for abortion is ridiculous too.

 

Whats so ridiculous about using fetal heartbeat as the cut-off event? It's no more arbitrary than anything you've proposed.

 

I think we'd have to agree to disagree. The same as when there is first detectable brain activity, nobody believes it is a fully formed brain with the same function as an adult human brain. It's just an arbitrary point of development to indicate a marker of when to assign rights. The vast majority of Americans, who have a conscience, have their own rational basis for when they determine a developing human should have some state protections. The heart having a measurable function is one such data point. Other common points people choose would be brain activity, the capability of feeling pain, different chances of viability, etc.

 

The ridiculousness I was specifically thinking about here is the lack of clarity around whether the principle is an arbitrary 6 week gestation cut-off (in which case why is "fetal heartbeat" defined as the only means permitted to determine that) or an arbitrary "when 'fetal heartbeat' can be detected" (in which case why haven't all of these questions of what that actually means in medical and legal terms haven't already been clarified).

I've not proposed anything, not least because any cut-off is indeed arbitrary. I don't pretend to have any kind of magic answer the the complex issues surrounding abortion but I'm not convinced any hard cut-off is necessary or practical (certainly not an early one). If the intention is really to reduce the number of abortions that occur, I think efforts would be better focused elsewhere (comprehensive sex education - for children and adults, availability of information about contraception, pre-natal healthcare, maternal and paternal support etc.).

 

I guess so, though I will point out that half the population are of below average intelligence and politicians often take great advantage of that.

I totally agree this is an entirely arbitrary cut-off (regardless of whether it's based on a week number or physical development) and that even people who opposed abortion disagree on which arbitrary cut-off should be used. The facts hidden behind Abrams' ridiculous statement I was pointing out are just to highlight was this specific one is so arbitrary. As I said in my previous post, the rationale for it still needs more support than has currently been offered.

 

Rotflmfao !!

 

Sorry forgot the right wing pro death party knows more than American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/wome...fetal-heartbeat-six-weeks-pregnancy-rcna24435

 

That's hilarious! Accusing folks of being pro death while arguing for genocide.

 

You mean the guys who supported Dubya's war of choice?