Mystery leaks (sabotage) hit Russian (Nordstream 1 and 2) undersea gas pipelines to Europe

Well let's start with the reality that we and NATO should have listened to Trump. Bottom line. He knew you should never give this kind of energy dependance leverage to a **** stain like Putin.

Secondly, yes. Russia considers this a proxy war with the west, absolutely. And he's right.

 

If that's what happened, rather than a sub, then there ought to be satellite evidence.

 

Well engaging in a proxy war with Russia without any US national security benefit is the height of madness.

 

Putting back on me now. This was about your statement, I was asking you a question, was I not?
So, the Soviet Union fell and during that time, the referendum regions were within the boundaries of Ukraine, so, if Ukraine was a part of the Soviet Union, then that region still being Russian would go back into Russia's domain, would it not?
Yet, if you want to state that that region is a part of Ukraine, why do the Ukie military shoot and shell these regions indiscriminately, regardless of any Wagner group or separatists in those regions? The fact that the Ukies and NATO shat on the Minsk 1 & 2 agreements.

 

We are acutally just living up to the obligations we agreed upon in 1994. We are doing what we said we would. Russia, on the other hand...is actually doing everything it said it wouldn't do.

This is fairly clear cut.

 

It's supposed to go mad, or at least according to an Orthodox Saint who said the world will go mad 20 years after her death - and that happens to be Oct.1, 2022. I became really worried though when the Pope told everyone in the Vatican, to take their money out of foreign banks before Oct. Did he know something that we don't?

Even less than that number. Russia, the US and maybe France. Russia is out, it's doubtful France would do it which leaves the US. They had the reasons to do it, and the ability to do it. Besides their ships were nearby.

Jackson Hinkle gives a good analysis. He's funny too.

 

Oh is this guy trying to pretend that Putin was about to be a good guy by holding talks/negotiations?

"now that we've illegally taken more of your land let's strike up another treaty or memorandum that we will just violate in the future once it suits our needs!"

I don't think that's how this works.

 

I'm guessing but I suspect that anything done by a surface ship would be more easily trackable, in which case there would be a trail to follow to finding the actual culprits,

 

I don't know how many times I've had to bust that particular Budapest Memorandum balloon on this forum. We don't have a defense treaty with Ukraine, and purposefully avoided putting any such commitments in the Budapest Memorandum. We're not fulfilling any obligations, we're playing chicken with a nuclear power with no benefit to the United States. In fact, the world, not just the Ukraine, has become a great deal worse off and riskier since the war largely due to our reaction to it, rather than the war itself.

You've already said you would be happy if the US were the actual culprit in sabotaging these pipelines, so I have to ask, if Russian operatives sabotaged rail and pipelines in the US, halting fuel deliveries across the country, would that be considered an act of war or no?

 

Agree. I'm sure only so many ships pass over those exact spots, though it could have been done quite a while back.

 

• “To seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine … if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.”"
  
  It's murky but I think the west giving arms but not personnell works fine under "provide assistance"

 

Sadly, that's merely the argument of cowardice.
The Russians sabotaged the pipeline, and I expect proof will be forthcoming shortly.
It is never wrong to oppose aggression and tyranny.

 

"USA did it"??

OK...prove it?

 

First on CNN: European security officials observed Russian Navy . . .
European security officials on Monday and Tuesday observed Russian Navy support ships in the vicinity of leaks in the Nord Stream pipelines likely caused by underwater explosions, according two Western intelligence officials and one other source familiar with the matter.

It’s unclear whether the ships had anything to do with those explosions, these sources and others said – but it’s one of the many factors that investigators will be looking into.

Russian submarines were also observed not far from those areas last week, one of the intelligence officials said. . . .

 

The Washington Post
Europe pointing at Russia, alleging sabotage for Nord Stream damage

 

It's a bit ironic don't you think when the US said, "we'll do whatever it takes, even blow up the pipelines if we have to." And guess what happened? The pipelines somehow blew up simultaneously. Also, do we understand the ramifications of this act? Would that be the US, further shooting the EU, in particular, Germany and all being NATO bum buddies? Strange don't ya think? Unless there is an ulterior motive at play here. Weaken Germany/EU so the US can get a little stronger, along with egging Russia into a nuclear war. If you control the pipelines and there is no gas flowing through them, why blow them up? Because it wasn't those who control the pipeline.
Let's Go Brandon!

 

Hmm, WP fake news.

 

Here's an indepth analysis of the terrorist attack on the Nordstream pipelines by the always brilliant Jeff Childers of C & C News:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Biden offers words of encouragement for hurricane preparation and I roundup all the news about the Nordstream attacks.


*WORLD NEWS AND COMMENTARY*

September 27th 2022

It’s an international whodunit fraught with nuclear possibilities! Let’s do some sleuthing. It’s World War Clue.

The Crime: yesterday, deep in the Baltic Sea, in NATO-controlled waters, BOTH of Russias natural gas pipelines were blown up, at depths of 70-90 meters, or about 300 feet deep — far deeper than scuba divers can go. So far, nobody has taken credit for what is obviously a well-planned, perfectly-executed, deeply-resourced terrorist attack.



The depth of the attacks rules out any private actors. You need a submarine, or something like a submarine, to reach those depths. The depths help hide the attack, and make it hard to gather evidence to figure out who did it. The attacks’ depth also makes it hard to repair the pipelines. The explosions produced earth tremors up to 2.5 on the Richter scale, so we can safely assume the terrorists used military-grade weapons.

Let’s set up the board.

The Library: Nordstream 1 (NS1) is an existing pipeline providing Western Europe cheap Russian natural gas, cheaper than U.S. producers can provide. Germany in particular relies on NS1; one now-famous video shows President Trump trying to convince laughing Germans to buy U.S. natural gas, ironically arguing the Russians could cut off the supply in the event of war.

♟️ The Study: Nordstream 2 (NS2) is a new pipeline allowing Russia to send even cheaper gas to Western Europe, because the gas doesn’t go through Ukrainian or Polish territorial areas, so Russia would not have to pay transit fees to those countries. Russia just recently completed NS2 in the face of massive opposition from Ukraine, Poland and USA. U.S. sanctions have prevented the new pipeline from opening so far.

♟️ Mr. Green: Russia has recently been throttling back Europe’s NS1 gas supply, while telling the Europeans that it can immediately flood both pipelines if Germany will just drop its sanctions. Germany has been hedging its bets, keeping some options open, just in case, and maybe getting a little wobbly on the whole sanctions thing lately. The day before the attacks, Germans demanded an end to U.S. sanctions:

RadioGenova @RadioGenova
Thousands of people in Gera in Germany against Olaf Scholz's policy and the explosion of energy and gas prices. They demand an end to sanctions on Russia and the reopening of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline. Demonstrations also in other German cities but EU media censors them.

September 26th 2022

6,035 Retweets13,026 Likes
Reuters reported about ten days ago that Putin invited Europe to solve its energy crisis by ignoring U.S. orders and opening up the NordStream 2 pipeline. “Just push the button and everything will get going,” Putin offered.

Kim Dotcom @KimDotcom
The sabotage of Nord Stream 1 and 2 targets the desire of Germany to negotiate peace with Russia in an effort to safe the German industry from total collapse. This goal to find a settlement is the reason why Germany is refusing to send Leopard II tanks etc. to Ukraine.
September 28th 2022

2,811 Retweets9,097 Likes
♟️ Professor Plum and the Lead Pipe: Britain and its minehunters. About a month ago, the Defense Post ran an article headlined, “UK Donates Underwater Drones to Ukraine for Mine-Hunting.” Fascinating. The article explained the drones are remote-controlled, and can swim up to 100 meters (328 feet) deep — thirty feet deeper than the two explosions, in other words.

♟️ The Revolver: The New York Times. The day before the attacks on the pipelines, the Times ran a prominent op-ed titled, “Biden’s Cautious Foreign Policy is Imperiling the United States.” The op-ed encouraged a more direct, more forceful, more aggressive response to Russia; it argued that fears of World War III were overblown and were making Biden too timid.

♟️ Colonel Mustard: Joe Biden. I reviewed Biden’s twitter feed. Over the last two days, he’s rambled about climate change, Hurricane Ian, Social Security, and capitalism, but has said NOTHING about the Nordstream attacks. Which is odd, because you’d think the U.S. would want to distance itself from the terrorist attacks. The normal script writes itself: “While we strongly disagree with Russia’s illegal war in Ukraine, we also condemn the terrorist attack on its energy infrastructure in international waters, and we pledge our full support to help Russia identify and bring the perpetrators to justice.”

He might have just forgotten though. You know Joe.

Joe may or may not remember that, back in February, he smirkingly promised that “there will be no longer a Nordstream 2, we will bring an end to it … if Germany, uh, if Russia invades” Ukraine:

ABC News @ABC
Pres. Biden: "If Russia invades...then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it." Reporter: "But how will you do that, exactly, since...the project is in Germany's control?" Biden: "I promise you, we will be able to do that." abcn.ws/3B5SScx

February 7th 2022

8,550 Retweets13,316 Likes
And, of course, Russia DID invade Ukraine, didn’t they? So…

♟️ Miss Scarlet: Around the same time as Biden’s comments, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, who engineered the 2014 color revolution in Ukraine, and is all messed in with the Ukraine biolabs somehow, also threatened the pipeline:

Kim Dotcom @KimDotcom
From the mouth of the 2014 Ukraine coup d'etat manager: “If Russia invades Ukraine >ONE WAY OR ANOTHER< North Steam 2 will not move forward.

September 28th 2022

905 Retweets2,320 Likes
Nuland’s statement proves it was a matter of U.S. policy, and not just something goofy that Joe said.

♟️ Mrs. Peacock: Ukraine. The day before the terrorist attacks, Russia completed a referendum which by all accounts just effectively transferred 20% of Ukraine’s territory to Russia, which would be comparable to Mexico annexing the states of Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico. Ukraine considers the referendums to be a sneaky trick, legalistic sleight-of-hand. But the same sleight-of-hand worked about ten years ago when Russia annexed Crimea.

Ukraine also now has those British mine-hunter drones that can go 330 feet deep. Those might really be dangerous if, say, Ukraine had a larger ally to help rig a couple mine-hunters for detonation, and point out exactly where the pipelines are.

It’s not a new idea. Back in 2015, the Pipeline Journal ran an article headlined, “Explosive-Laden Drone Found Near Nord Stream Pipeline.” The article said the Swedish military successfully cleared a remote operated vehicle (drone) rigged with explosives near the Nord Stream Natural Gas offshore pipeline system. The drone’s nation of origin was never determined, for some reason.

♟️ Mr. Black: Poland, which stands to lose substantial transit revenues it receives from Russia if Nordstream 2 goes live, encouraged the U.S. to destroy the pipeline last month. Poland’s president, Andrzej Duda, exhorted last month that “we cannot return to normal business with Russia… A change in policy in the West is not just a complete termination of Nord Stream 2, but also the liquidation, complete dismantling of this stream.”

Complete dismantling. Liquidation of the stream. Sounds about right. The pipes are full of water now, and last I checked, water was a liquid.

Poland has been hosting the U.S.’s most important military base, the base that is staging the American support in the Ukraine war. Right after the attack, influential Polish MEP and staunch U.S. ally Radek Sikorski thanked the United States, right over a picture of the attack:

Radek Sikorski MEP @radeksikorski
Thank you, USA.

September 27th 2022

11,760 Retweets37,863 Likes
Now that we have the board set up, let’s play the game. The Analysis:

CUI BONO? The first intellectual tool we’ll apply is ‘cui bono,’ or ‘who benefits?’ Let’s see:

Players Benefited: Ukraine, United States, UK, Poland, Biden (promise kept, allies pleased), Nuland (same), and the New York Times (Biden followed its op-ed advice).

Players Harmed: Russia, Germany, Putin, and the rest of Western Europe, whose energy prices are about to reach escape velocity.

(* There’s a goofy leftwing theory going around that Russia blew up its own super-expensive pipelines, in NATO-controlled waters, just to blame others. That’s dumb and it only reinforces the point that the attacks hurt Russia. And Russia hasn’t even blamed anybody yet. I bet they won’t. They’ll stick in the knife in the dark when nobody’s looking.)

ABILITY: Which players had the resources, access, and opportunity to carry out the crimes? The UK and the United States, without help. Ukraine could have helped, but could not have pulled off the job, not by itself.

PRIMACY AND RECENCY. Next, especially when dealing with an unclaimed terrorist attack, we must examine the timing. Is there anything significant about the date? Terrorists’ crimes don’t work if people can’t easily connect the dots. The Nordstream attacks came the day after Russia completed its referendums in Eastern Ukraine, and the day after widespread German demands to an end to sanctions. Also yesterday, quite fortuitously and coincidentally, Poland and Denmark opened their own brand-new underwater pipeline bringing Norwegian gas to the Netherlands and Europe.

Chancellery of the Prime Minister of Poland @PremierRP_en
The launching ceremony of the #BalticPipe gas pipeline with participation of PM @MorawieckiM, PM of Denmark Mette Frederiksen & @prezydentpl @AndrzejDuda. The Baltic Pipe is a strategic infrastructure project aimed at creating a new gas supply corridor on the European market.

September 27th 2022

53 Retweets157 Likes
CORPORATE MEDIA: Corporate media’s narrative can tell us a lot. In this case, corporate media is downplaying its reporting of the attacks. The Wall Street Journal this morning doesn’t even have a headline article about them, relegating the story to a bullet sub-headline, which reads “Nord Stream Leaks Spur Scramble to Protect Europe’s Energy Infrastructure.”

Leaks! Haha. And that’s the Wall Street Journal.

Given all the facts, the players, and the weapons, what do you think? Who killed the Nordstream pipelines? Dog-faced pony soldiers?

We don’t know a lot yet, but one thing is certain. Russia will retaliate. It practically HAS TO, to discourage further attacks. Russia can do the same analysis that we can, much better in fact. There are even more public details that I left out due to space considerations, because they were redundant to what we already know. Details that Russia will certainly consider.

Whoever did it, the attacks were a gigantic, poorly-considered, reckless escalation. The U.S. and other countries (like Poland, see above) have their own vulnerable underwater assets. One in particular — the transatlantic Internet cable — seems like a very attractive target if Russia ever decides the U.S. was involved somehow.

 

And the plot thickens. Hmm, who stepped in dog poo, Victoria Nuland? and she says in the phone call, "fck the EU".

Well done Jeannette, slam dunk!

 

You are wildly, massively, (and utterly foolishly) overestimating the capabilities of our satellites if you think we can just shrug and reroute everything through satellites if undersea cables start getting severed. We can't.

 

I'd be interested if any / all of you would share your thoughts on this short exchange between Biden and a reporter in February:

Biden: "If Russia invades...then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it."

Reporter: "But how will you do that, exactly, since...the project is in Germany's control?"

Biden: "I promise you, we will be able to do that."

source: ABC News on Twitter: "Pres. Biden: "If Russia invades...then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it." Reporter: "But how will you do that, exactly, since...the project is in Germany's control?" Biden: "I promise you, we will be able to do that." https://t.co/uruQ4F4zM9 https://t.co/4ksDaaU0YC" / Twitter

I don't think I need to tell you how awful it looks to have this exchange, on video, out there a few months before the Nord Stream 2 pipeline was apparently sabotaged. How do you explain this away? How do you even rationalize it in your own minds if you're some of those who have supported Biden?

 

How do you justify interpreting this statement in such a way? Nord Stream 2 was already dead and not about to be revived when this happened.

Misconstruing Biden's words this way reeks of Russian propaganda.

 

Take a really good look at Jeannette's post, you know, the really big one. Biden will tell you straight up, his intentions, well, not his but you know what I mean, or do you?

 

I don't think they'd be interested. They have their own make-believe reality.

 

Yep, Putler was big mad and thought blowing up his own pipeline was some how a good idea. Sadly, he is falling for his own propaganda as there will be no natural gas shortages but the price structure will change so that it is more expensive. Yet our Putin bots still lie and claim everyone in Europe will some how freeze to death.

It is just eye rollingly dumb propaganda yet the Russian public seems ignorant enough to believe such nonsense.