Why you feel that way. The because of why you feel that way. I oppose abortion because it is the taking of an innocent human life which violates a fundamental principle of our country and our humanity's morals and ethics, our self evident truth we are created with our right to life.
It is a specious point SS#'s do not create nor define what is a human being your attempts to claim otherwise notwithstanding. It is a ridiculously absurd claim.
And that's why I didn't say it did. I did NOT claim that a SSN creates or defines what a human being is... ...as usual you have the wrong end of the stick and if you don't understand, nor can accept, that you are wrong in your "interpretation" of what I said there is nothing I can do to correct your error.
FoxHastings said: ↑ And that's why I didn't say it did. I did NOT claim that a SSN creates or defines what a human being is... ...as usual you have the wrong end of the stick and if you don't understand, nor can accept, that you are wrong in your "interpretation" of what I said there is nothing I can do to correct your error. I will inject anything I want to inject... Just because you can't understand a concept doesn't mean it's "specious"....it means you don't/can't understand it...or maybe you do and can't refute it
Just because you do not understand biology and science or our founding principles is not my problem. There is nothing to refute SS#'s do not define your humanity. Billions of people without SS#'s are still human beings with their self evident right to life which we are all CREATED with.
Fair enough. If we are speaking from the position of valuing human life, giving government more power does the opposite. I respect your position, but using government to impose it on others is where I draw the line. If I gave you unlimited resources, how would you enforce abortion bans?
And I have not disputed that a fetus is an unborn baby nor that the fetus/baby/whatever is terminated during an abortion so I'm not sure why you would need to cite these things in the first place. For the same reason that you choose to use the language that you do. Emotional effect, or the removal of emotion. No matter what you call it, the fetus/baby/Gift from God/blessing/child/human life/whatever is terminated during an abortion. It's the whole point of having the abortion. Everyone who argues about abortion knows this, so it comes down to pure semantics how they wish to describe it. It absolutely unequivocally is. It is a connected part of the mother's body and if it were not, it would not survive past fertilization. Everything it requires to survive and grow, from the womb it resides in to the food and water it needs to live, come directly and exclusively from the mother's body. It is not an individual because an individual doesn't live inside another individual. Once it is born, then it becomes an individual. That is how our laws work and have always worked, both in wording and in unspoken custom. The idea of fetal personhood never existed prior to the need to invent it to oppose abortion. And the abortion debate is the only time you will ever see it referenced. It is semantics, and I explained why. What you choose to call the it doesn't change what an abortion is. The use of the term therefore is chosen either to remove emotion or to play upon it.
I searched for scientific medical term for an unborn human Fetus: Also found in: Dictionary, Thesaurus, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia. fetus [fe´tus] (L.) the developing young in the uterus, specifically the unborn offspring in the postembryonic period, which in humans is from the third month after fertilization until birth. See also embryo. The stages of growth of the fetus are fairly well defined. At the end of the first month it has grown beyond microscopic size. After 2 months it is a little over 2.5 cm long, its face is formed, and its limbs are partly formed. By the end of the third month it is 8 cm long and weighs about 30 g; its limbs, fingers, toes, and ears are fully formed, and its sex can be distinguished. After 4 months the fetus is about 20 cm long and weighs over 200 g. The mother can feel its movements, and usually the health care provider can hear its heartbeat. The eyebrows and eyelashes are formed, and the skin is pink and covered with fine hair called lanugo. By the fifth month the fetus's body is covered with a cheeselike substance (vernix caseosa), which serves to protect it in its watery environment. By the end of the fifth month it is 30 cm long, weighs 450 g, and has hair on its head. At the end of the sixth month it is 35 cm long and weighs 900 g, and its skin is very wrinkled. After 7 months the fetus is 40 cm long and weighs over 1.3 kg, with more fat under its skin. In the male, the testes have descended into the scrotum. By the end of the eighth month it is 45 cm long, may weigh 2.3 kg, and has a good chance of survival if it is born at that time. At the end of 9 months, the average length of a fetus is 50 cm and the average weight is 3.2 kg. adj., adj fe´tal. calcified fetus a dead fetus that has become calcified in utero; called also lithopedion. fetus in fe´tu a small, imperfect fetus, incapable of independent life, contained within the body of another fetus. harlequin fetus an infant with a severe and dramatic form of congenital ichthyosis, manifested by hyperkeratosis with rigid skin; death usually occurs in the first six weeks of life. mummified fetus a dead fetus that is dried up and shriveled. fetus papyra´ceus a dead fetus flattened by being pressed against the uterine wall by a living twin. parasitic fetus in unequal twins, an incomplete minor fetus attached to a larger, more completely developed fetus (the autosite). Miller-Keane Encyclopedia and Dictionary of Medicine, Nursing, and Allied Health, Seventh Edition. © 2003 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved. fe·tus , pl. fe·tus·es (fē'tŭs, fē'tŭs-ez), Avoid the incorrect plural feti. 1. The unborn young of a viviparous animal following the embryonic period. 2. In humans, the product of conception from the end of the eighth week of gestation to the moment of birth. [L. offspring] Farlex Partner Medical Dictionary © Farlex 2012 fetus (fē′təs) n. pl. fe·tuses 1. The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal. 2. In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth, as distinguished from the earlier embryo. The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary Copyright © 2007, 2004 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. fetus Obstetris 1. The unborn child developing in the uterus–after the embryonic stage, circa age 7 to 8 wks to birth. 2. The product of conception from the time of implantation until delivery; if the delivered or expelled fetus is viable, it is designated an infant. See Harlequin fetus, Nonviable fetus. Cf Embryo. McGraw-Hill Concise Dictionary of Modern Medicine. © 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc. fe·tus , pl. fetuses (fē'tŭs, -ĕz) 1. The unborn young of a viviparous animal after it has taken form in the uterus. 2. In humans, the product of conception from the end of the eighth week to the moment of birth. Synonym(s): foetus. [L. offspring] Medical Dictionary for the Health Professions and Nursing © Farlex 2012 fetus The developing individual from about the eighth or tenth week of life in the womb until the time of birth. The fetus has all the recognizable external characteristics of a human being. At 10 weeks, the fetus measures about 2.5 cm from the crown of the head to the rump. The face is formed but the eyelids are fused together. The brain is in a primitive state, incapable of any meaningful form of consciousness. By 3 months, the fetus is about 5 cm long (crown to rump) and by 4 months it is about 10 cm long. In the 6th month, the fetus is up to 20 cm long and weighs up to 800 g. Survival outside the womb at this stage is unlikely. Most fetuses over 2 000 grams do well if properly managed in an INCUBATOR. From the Latin fetus , an offspring. The common spelling ‘foetus’ is incorrect and is used only by journalists who should know better. Collins Dictionary of Medicine © Robert M. Youngson 2004, 2005 Fetus
You can't claim to be following medical science in your quest for a government ban on abortion. There are just far to many cases where medical science sees abortion as the preferred choice when laws being written fully intend to prevent the medical science direction on the healthcare of women. And, I'd point out that, regardless of terminology, medical science recognizes pregnancies as potentials.
Absolutely false. The baby from the getgo is a unique and separate being, can even be a different sex from the mother. The purpose of the placenta and uterus is to keep them totally separate else they would endanger eaches life. The nourishment and oxygen pass through the walls of the placenta and uterus so the baby's and the mother's blood do not mix. And not only does the pro-abortion side refuse to acknowledge it's a baby they self-sevingly DENY IT. And YES it should be an emotional issue innocent human lives, unborn babies are at stake.
Sure I can. Science saya new human being is created AT conception it NEVER views a new human being as "potential life" there is no such thing as a potential human being.
Did the placenta and uterus appear magically inside the woman, or did they grow as part of the woman? Did the oxygen and nourishment passing through the walls of the placenta come from outside the woman's body? Are the placenta, uterus, and the fetus inside magically suspended within the woman's body without being connected to it, and all the essentials of life that the fetus needs teleported inside? Of course not. The baby being a unique being means nothing, and until birth it is not separate. And lets remember, the fetus would have no blood at all, or anything else, without the matter that blood was made from coming from the mother's body and the environment provided by her body that allowed it to form in the first place. A mother's right to her own body is also at stake, and I place a higher value on that than I do on a fetus. And since this is now emotional and not logical, you have no standing to tell me I'm wrong. And you should probably avoid making accusations of denial, as you yourself are in denial about the baby being connected to the mother's body.
FoxHastings said: ↑ I searched for scientific medical term for an unborn human Fetus: Also found in: Dictionary, Thesaurus, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia. fetus [fe´tus] (L.) the developing young in the uterus, specifically the unborn offspring in the postembryonic period, which in humans is from the third month after fertilization until birth. See also embryo. The stages of growth of the fetus are fairly well defined. At the end of the first month it has grown beyond microscopic size. After 2 months it is a little over 2.5 cm long, its face is formed, and its limbs are partly formed. By the end of the third month it is 8 cm long and weighs about 30 g; its limbs, fingers, toes, and ears are fully formed, and its sex can be distinguished. After 4 months the fetus is about 20 cm long and weighs over 200 g. The mother can feel its movements, and usually the health care provider can hear its heartbeat. The eyebrows and eyelashes are formed, and the skin is pink and covered with fine hair called lanugo. By the fifth month the fetus's body is covered with a cheeselike substance (vernix caseosa), which serves to protect it in its watery environment. By the end of the fifth month it is 30 cm long, weighs 450 g, and has hair on its head. At the end of the sixth month it is 35 cm long and weighs 900 g, and its skin is very wrinkled. After 7 months the fetus is 40 cm long and weighs over 1.3 kg, with more fat under its skin. In the male, the testes have descended into the scrotum. By the end of the eighth month it is 45 cm long, may weigh 2.3 kg, and has a good chance of survival if it is born at that time. At the end of 9 months, the average length of a fetus is 50 cm and the average weight is 3.2 kg. adj., adj fe´tal. calcified fetus a dead fetus that has become calcified in utero; called also lithopedion. fetus in fe´tu a small, imperfect fetus, incapable of independent life, contained within the body of another fetus. harlequin fetus an infant with a severe and dramatic form of congenital ichthyosis, manifested by hyperkeratosis with rigid skin; death usually occurs in the first six weeks of life. mummified fetus a dead fetus that is dried up and shriveled. fetus papyra´ceus a dead fetus flattened by being pressed against the uterine wall by a living twin. parasitic fetus in unequal twins, an incomplete minor fetus attached to a larger, more completely developed fetus (the autosite). Miller-Keane Encyclopedia and Dictionary of Medicine, Nursing, and Allied Health, Seventh Edition. © 2003 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved. fe·tus , pl. fe·tus·es (fē'tŭs, fē'tŭs-ez), Avoid the incorrect plural feti. 1. The unborn young of a viviparous animal following the embryonic period. 2. In humans, the product of conception from the end of the eighth week of gestation to the moment of birth. [L. offspring] Farlex Partner Medical Dictionary © Farlex 2012 fetus (fē′təs) n. pl. fe·tuses 1. The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal. 2. In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth, as distinguished from the earlier embryo. The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary Copyright © 2007, 2004 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. fetus Obstetris 1. The unborn child developing in the uterus–after the embryonic stage, circa age 7 to 8 wks to birth. 2. The product of conception from the time of implantation until delivery; if the delivered or expelled fetus is viable, it is designated an infant. See Harlequin fetus, Nonviable fetus. Cf Embryo. McGraw-Hill Concise Dictionary of Modern Medicine. © 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc. fe·tus , pl. fetuses (fē'tŭs, -ĕz) 1. The unborn young of a viviparous animal after it has taken form in the uterus. 2. In humans, the product of conception from the end of the eighth week to the moment of birth. Synonym(s): foetus. [L. offspring] Medical Dictionary for the Health Professions and Nursing © Farlex 2012 fetus The developing individual from about the eighth or tenth week of life in the womb until the time of birth. The fetus has all the recognizable external characteristics of a human being. At 10 weeks, the fetus measures about 2.5 cm from the crown of the head to the rump. The face is formed but the eyelids are fused together. The brain is in a primitive state, incapable of any meaningful form of consciousness. By 3 months, the fetus is about 5 cm long (crown to rump) and by 4 months it is about 10 cm long. In the 6th month, the fetus is up to 20 cm long and weighs up to 800 g. Survival outside the womb at this stage is unlikely. Most fetuses over 2 000 grams do well if properly managed in an INCUBATOR. From the Latin fetus , an offspring. The common spelling ‘foetus’ is incorrect and is used only by journalists who should know better. Collins Dictionary of Medicine © Robert M. Youngson 2004, 2005 Fetus DUH, WE ALL ARE ...toddlers, , seniors, adults, teenagers ......we all are fetuses while UNBORN....we have to be BORN to go onto the next stage...that's why NO ONE calls a fetus a teenager A human fetus not a human being as in "person"...adjectives and nouns are different things.
There are numerous reasons that a zygote may not make it to birth. Those reasons are well known to medical science. Plus, you are still dodging the issues related to healthcare of the woman, including cases where saving the life of the woman is not consistent with continuing the pregnancy. In your arguments, you depend on single ideas while ignoring the full process. For example, yes, every human begin starts out as a zygote. But, that doesn't mean that every zygote has even a CHANCE at being a person.
A steaming pile of nonsense .. lacking the ability to make coherent comment on the subject. Pro Choice are not necessarily abortion supporters is your first logical fallacy. The idea that all abortion happens at the same time is another logical fail .. such that the entity should be treated the same throughout pregnancy .. yet another logical fail. Whats mostly absurd and pathetic however, is having been engaging in this debate for many years .. yet still making engaging in the same fallacious nonsense. Have you no capacity for learning -- or do you intentionally make the same errors in perpetuity ?
You have been told numerous times why your claim is ridiculous nonsense . There is no fundamental principle giving the right to life to human feces .. Why you keep trying to put feces on the same level as a living human . and have no capability to learn ?
Only baselessly and fallacious so. And for you to compare a human life at any stage of that life to a human feces only shows how lacking is you knowledge of biology while you ignore the fundamental principles on which our country was founded that we are CREATED with our self evident truth of our inherent right to our life. Why do you keep posting such statements only showing how weak in merit is your argument.
So what, there are numerous reasons an adolescent might not make it to adulthood does that mean their mother can kill it. Birth is NOT when you were created as a human being PERIOD saying so is scientific nonsense. I have cited medical science, what I majored in, over and over and over and that is that the new human being is created at conception. There is NO scientific rational argument otherwise. I have dealt fully with the health of the mother. I am the one pointing out the WHOLE process not claiming some arbitrary other point in time in order to try and make my argument more morally and ethically acceptable.
I did no such thing .. you are the one conflating a human with human feces .. lacking not only knowledge in biology but also the english language. Whats worse is that you have been corrected on this numerous times but still don't get it ... your claim that there is some inherent right to life for a human feces is abject nonsense on steroids.
And human beings from the moment they were conceived I don't know why you think listing the various stages of life every human being goes through starting at their creation refutes anything I have posted. A person is an individual human being just like every human being is starting at their creation.
The placenta biologically appears from the baby in the womb. It is not grown as a part of the woman. Yes because it keeps them separated. The placenta lays with and intertwines with the uterus and blood vessles so nurishment and oxygen can pass to the baby and CO2 and waste can pass from the baby. It keeps them SEPARATED and does not allow the mother's and baby's blood mix causing a lethal attack on the baby by the mothers immune system. Tell me if the baby is part of the mother and the baby is boy does the mother become a hermaphrodite for 9 months because she now has male parts? "At stake" well I think it's the baby's body that is more "at stake" when it comes to abortion. And in more ways than one. What else to you put over our fundamental right to life? It's scientific and I have already showed you are wrong on that point. It is about our fundamental rights as human beings and I have already showed you are wrong on that point. Since I have shown you why your claim is fallacious nonsense and flies in the face of the biological facts perhaps YOU should avoid further attempts at discussing the science and biology. Tell me is a baby sucking on it's mothers breast a part of the mother and thus while the baby is suckling if she no longer wants it to live can she kill it?
YOU compared to feces, as you just did again, in your totally unscientific response. Respond to the science I posted. Where have I gotten the science wrong and be specific with a cite from a scientific source.
Of course not. Your point that there isn't one rule that fits all situations is absolutely correct. BUT, there absolutely ARE cases where NOT aborting is a lethal risk to the woman. And, there ARE cases where the fetus might qualify as being alive, but have no possibility of living beyond a very short and painful period. And, there ARE cases where the fetus is NOT ALIVE by medical measures of being alive, but the laws being written demand that the woman must continue carrying the dead fetus. And, there ARE those who believe it to be unconscionable to demand that a raped girl be required to carry the rapist's fetus to term. And, there ARE cases where it would be life threatening for a woman to carry the fetus to term. These are decisions that are made daily throughout the world. Suggesting that they can ONLY be made by legislatures and prosecutors is just plain NOT acceptable. Also, let's remember that the view that abortion should be illegal in all or most situations is a MINORITY VIEW.
