Gun controllers- how do you justify this?

We passed some new gun laws here in Washington State in 2018. Mandatory storage, mandatory BGCs for all P2P transfers, mandatory online gun safety course to purchase semi-auto, no more bypass of waiting period for CCW holders, and some others. With an increased administrative cost of $10M per year.

The results thus far:
total murders by firearm in 2018: 103
total murders by firearm in 2019: 135
total murders by firearm in 2020: 167
total murders by firearm in 2021: 209
(2022 data not yet available)
CDE (cjis.gov)
(these stats are all listed as 'homicides', so presumably suicides are not included)

Oh, and iirc, 1 single prosecution for strawpurchasing a firearm ...after it was used to shoot someone.

So basically we've gutted our constitutional rights and spent $40M to double the number of people shot to death here in WA.

Its contextually important to note that violent crime has increased nationwide by at least 10% (as of 2022) from its low in 2014. So its not necessarily demonstrable that these new laws caused the increase in people shot to death ...but they are very possibly a contributor.

But still. If this was anything other than gun control, it would be categorically understood that these laws are A TOTAL FAILURE. But when it comes to gun control, it seems the logic is- 'more didn't work, so lets do EVEN MORE.'

 

oh, and our population grew from 7.5M to 7.7M from 2018 to 2021. Just in case anyone was thinking that was it...

 

Thanks for the data. It’s a great example of inverse correlation between gun law and crime/deaths. There are many examples pertaining to nations, states and cities.

Unfortunately, the anti gun crowd has no interest in facts. No amount of data can overcome their emotional attachment to the issue fostered by the deceptive authorities they appeal to.

 

Bottom line is gun control does not work. That’s why we should never give up any ground to the gun control crowd. Not a single damn inch!

 

The only gun laws that can be effective are federal laws.

States are trying to do what the federal government fails to do, but they don't really have the authority to keep guns out of their states.

 

Neither does fedgov.

It is already illegal in WA to bring in a weapon from out of state without the proper paperwork (basically BGCs, a de-facto registration and probably a tax). That hasn't helped either. Of course, its impossible to physically prevent it, however there's no indication that our increased number of shootings are from out-of-state guns.

edit- I just looked it up- we're 24th in the nation, or exactly average, with 26% of our gun crimes committed with out of state guns. So, it happens, but hardly explains why our deaths by shootings are double or why the recent laws have failed to have any demonstrable effect. Tho it certainly appears that making it illegal to bring in out-of-state guns has failed to prevent shootings as well.

 

Federal gun control laws don’t work either. Gun control is gun control no matter who enacts it, what country, what state, what city. It’s still gun control

 

The federal government at least has jurisdictional authority to actually do something effective. No state law is going to do any good, because states can't stop everyone at their border and check for guns that violate state law.

As long as the gun lobby hides behind the 2nd amendment, the federal government won't be doing anything either.

Gun debates always start with the pro gun people pretending to be willing to do something, and end with the pro gun people hiding behind the 2nd amendment, so it's not worth having a serious discussion with them.

 

Federal gun laws could work just fine, but anything significant gets deflected by the people hiding behind the 2nd amendment.

 

Until society decides to find out why so many people want to kill and resolve that, killing will continue no matter what feel good laws are passed.

 

Does free speech likewise hide behind the first amendment? Comments like yours is appalling to people who love our constitution

 

I don't think pro 2A folks ever pretend that they want gun control. In fact, we're very honest about opposing gun control.

 

Are you suggesting fedgov could stop everyone at the borders and check for guns? Or are you fantasizing about a fake dreamland where we somehow get rid of all the guns in the US and then close the borders?

Mostly what I see in gun debates is pro gun people willing to do things that don't violate the constitution. That's not 'hiding behind the 2nd amendment', thats upholding the law and preserving our rights. You wouldn't say people opposed to, for example, banning the worship of Allah are 'hiding behind the 1st amendment' would you?

 

Yea, people hide behind the first amendment to get out of baking a cake for gay weddings.

 

The way the pro gun people interpret the constitution, anything meaningful violates it.

I don't care what your side thinks, so it's a waste of time to discuss details with you. We will have to move on without you.

 

And there's that fully democratic attitude that supposedly no one is calling for, where the 49% go unrepresented in how they are governed. Thats the sort of attitude that led to the constitution limiting federal power

 

I'm not a democrat. The party is too conservative.

 

and you're too honest about what you actually support. (thats intended as compliment, btw)

 

Oh. That pesky constitution. Allows individuals to be individuals. Damn the thing right?

 

People hide behind the 1st Amendment to force people to bake cakes, against their will, for gay weddings.

 

It seems a lot of private gun sellers/buyers choose not to follow the law. Better enforcement is needed and perhaps a complete ban on all private sales.

https://www.king5.com/article/news/gun-buyers-may-not-be-following-background-check-law/281-18022213

 

Those would all be illegal straw purchases, punishable by jail time. Yet only 1 single person has been prosecuted for doing that. What do you propose is the solution here to make these currently pointless yet expensive laws more effective? Hopefully we can at least agree that passing more laws isn't going to help unless we also have a plan in place that ensures those laws are enforceable. It might be worth noting that expanding the number of officers to accommodate the increased workload isn't going to be popular in places like Seattle that have reduced funding and police manpower to reduce police violence against citizens.

 

Here is how the federal government enforces laws on purchasing (straw and other illegal purchase attempts).

We have laws against straw purchases and lying on forms. It’s 10 years prison and a $250,000 fine.

But here is how we enforce the law. By prosecuting 0.01% of offenses!

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-new...d-despite-crackdown-on-illegal-guns?_amp=true

The current laws we have on purchasing are not being enforced. It’s hard to conceive of new law being needed if old law hasn’t been enforced to see if it works or not.

 

According to CDC data, Washington state had the 12th lowest gun death rate in 2020 at 10.9 per 100,000.

Not bad compared to all the red states with rates over 20...

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm#!

 

So long as their gun laws further restrict the law abiding, the anti-gun left considers them effective.