Iraq war 20 years

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Endeavor, Mar 20, 2023.

  1. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    We created the Iran problem with operation Ajax, i.e., overthrowing a democratic government in Iran and allowing an oppressive monarch to take power.

    https://history.stanford.edu/news/aug-19-1953-operation-ajax-priya-satia

    A strong argument could be made that the UK created the Iraq problem with the Sykes-Picot Agreement which sold out the Arabs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes–Picot_Agreement
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
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  2. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    There was no WMD stockpile.
    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/06/iraq.wmd.report/

    Trump told the truth about Bush. No wonder the neocons hated him.

    Trump, Feb. 13: You call it whatever you want. I want to tell you. They lied. They said there were weapons of mass destruction; there were none. And they knew there were none. There were no weapons of mass destruction.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/yes-trump-said-bush-lied/
     
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  3. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Also not a good reason IMHO to have over 7000 of our soldiers killed and 32,000 maimed/wounded. Nor a good reason to spend over two trillion dollars.
     
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  4. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

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    I read your son also served in Iraq. Thank you.

    Yea 7000 our brave men and women gave their lives for an unnecessary war. Interesting to see so many Americans still support that war.

    By the way , the 2 trillion we spent will actually cost us 7 trillion in interest. So it is actually 9 trillion or almost 1/3 of our national debt.
     
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  5. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    It should be noted that primary elections are rigged. We saw that demonstrated with the DNC rigging primary wins for Mrs. Bill Clinton and Joe Biden. IMHO an establishment politician is a candidate representing a false two party dichotomy. Establishment politicians are supported by party leadership who are supported by our Oligarchy. For example, I do not consider the Freedom Caucus to be establishment politicans as they are not really supported by the Republican establishment.
     
  6. Trixare4kids

    Trixare4kids Well-Known Member

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    It certainly is odd how public opinion changes through the years. Who would have thought W would go from being thought of as a war criminal to practically one of America's favorites politicians.

    It was all one big waste of our time and money.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
  7. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Described here.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran–Iraq_War

    [​IMG]
    Iraq
    [​IMG]
    United States


    American support for Ba'athist Iraq during the Iran–Iraq War, in which it fought against post-revolutionary Iran, included several billion dollars' worth of economic aid, the sale of dual-use technology, military intelligence, and special operations training.[1][2] The U.S. refused to sell arms to Iraq directly due to Iraq's ties to terrorist groups, but several sales of "dual-use" technology have been documented; notably, Iraq purchased 45 Bell helicopters for $200 million in 1985.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
  8. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Who would have thought.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    We found what I already stated. It wasn't just about ready use WMD. Saddam dispersed and tried to hide his chemical and biological stockpiles after the first war. But such weapons especially at his low quality are difficult to store and especially don't like being buried out in the desert. Once he was removed and ISG did the inspections we found caches of weapons all over Iraq. But more important we found all the materials he had hidden from UNSCOM with which as the ISG reported once inspections were ended and sanctions lifted he could have reared within a matter of months. It was the Clinton administration that unequivocally stated that as long as Saddam was in power he would remain a threat to his own people, the regional the world.
     
  10. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3387941.stm

    So here is what a member of the Bush cabinet had to say on the WMD subject.

    "In the 23 months I was there, I never saw anything that I would characterise as evidence of weapons of mass destruction," the former member of the president's national security team said.
     
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Which has, even as you try to frame, 5he need to remove Saddam and his regime.
     
  12. Boilermaker55

    Boilermaker55 Well-Known Member

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    A little side thought about what happened around, during and about the Iraq situation.
    "One of those charges is that the vice president continues to receive money from Halliburton. New Jersey Democratic lawmaker Frank Lautenberg, member of the Senate Committee of Government Affairs and former top corporate executive, said: “Several months ago, I learned that Vice President Cheney - who was the CEO of Halliburton before his election - continues to receive income from the company that actually exceeds his salary as vice president. Now it is deferred compensation. The non-partisan, congressional research service determined the payment constitutes an ongoing financial relationship.”
    "Tax Havens: Under Cheney's tenure, the number of Halliburton subsidiaries in offshore tax havens increased from 9 to 44. Meanwhile, Halliburton went from paying $302 million in company taxes in 1998 to getting an $85 million tax refund in 1999."
     
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  13. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

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    I see you have your alternative facts. I have no interest challenging your alternative facts. In my earth US never found WMD in Iraq.
     
  14. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    The burden of proof is with those making WMD claims.

    A good read on the Bush war policy.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    OH a former FIRE TREASURY secretary a

    I'll take the people who were actually there on the ground.
     
  16. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    They aren’t alternate read the reporting and survey group reports and conclusions. Do you thin the Clinton administration was lying about the threat he posed?

    How do you explain the caches of barrels of highly concentrated organophosphate, the precursor to nerve gases and highly deadly on their own, buried in camouflaged holes along side new empty chemical weapons shells at former military sites?
     
  17. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    He was "on the ground" at the Bush cabinet meetings when the war was being planned. A war with Iraq was a subject of the first Bush cabinet meeting.
     
  18. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    Anyone ever see The History Channel documentary on Sun Tsu: The Art of War??

    History Channel has been garbage for quite a while now, but they used to put out some good documentaries.

    In discussing the Viet Nam War, an American Rep. says to a VG Colonel, "... you never defeated us in a single battle."

    To which the VG Colonel says, "... that's true - it's also irrelevant."


    Viet Nam is a perfect example of what the purpose of war is - from the perspective of the Establishment.

    Viet Nam was a psychological war against the American people.

    The Elites that pushed for the war, are the same people who funded and promoted all of the anti-war think tanks, Foundation output, and domestic social agitation fronts.

     
  19. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    They were buried before the first gulf war hence why everything buried had deteriorated when they were dug up again
     
  20. Par10

    Par10 Well-Known Member

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    As long as we are boiling it down to simple yes or no questions:
    Did Sadaam use WMDs to kill tens of thousands of Kurds?
    Did Sadaam tell the UN multiple times that he had WMDs?
    Did the CIA and DoD tell the POTUS that Iraq had WMDs?
    Were there gaps identified by UNSCOM in Iraqi accounting and current production capabilities strongly suggesting that Iraq maintained stockpiles of chemical agents, probably VX, sarin, cyclosarin and mustard?

    Whether we found them or not, there was no reason to suggest that there were none there.
     
  21. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    Not surprising at all... the Bush family, and the Obamas are on Team Establishment.
     
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  22. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    So what? And the outgoing Clinton administration was unequivocally telling them Saddam was and would always be a WMD threat until he was removed. It is why Senator Clinton unequivocally stated support to use military force to remove him.

    O'Neil was fired after two years of a contentious relationship with the administration. He was wrong on Iraq and he was wrong on the economy. He was not a national security or ME expert by any stretch.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
  23. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    We did find all of that but the bigger issue was Saddam after the inspections ended and sanctions lift and free to restock his WMD stockpiles and restart his labs to produce even more deadly ones.
     
  24. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And afterward as he tried to shuffle them around so the inspectors would not find them nd they were STILL highly toxic and dangerous. What's your point? We also found his hidden stockpiles the precursor chemicals.
     
  25. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

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    does any of these matter .. we went to war with the pretext that Iraq had WMD, but when we got there we didn't find any thing.
     
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