Getting back to the abortion issue i.e. Roe overturned..

When did I say rape is "ok huh" ?

 

You are inconsistent.
The fetus didnt rape the mother.

 

How am I inconsistent? -

 

Yes, authoritarian politicians in Nicaragua and El Salvador, in contrast to freedom-loving advanced democracies, dictate to women in personal matters of reproduction.
Most Americans do not want to emulate them.

El Salvador’s total ban on abortion

Nicaragua: Abortion Ban Threatens Health and Lives
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Floridians are being forced to pay for Authoritarian DeSantis's extremist agenda:
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Florida taxpayers pick up bill for Ron DeSantis’s culture war
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Since Florida’s governor, Ron DeSantis, took office in 2019 and embarked on his culture wars, lawsuits from various communities whose rights have been violated have been stacking up against the far-right Republican.

As DeSantis fights the lawsuits with what critics have described as a blank check from the state’s supermajority Republican legislature, the mounting legal costs have come heavily at the expense of Florida’s taxpayers.

In recent years, DeSantis’s ultra-conservative legislative agenda has drawn ire from a slew of marginalized communities as well as major corporations including Disney. The so-called “don’t say gay” bill, abortion bans and prohibition of African American studies are just a few of DeSantis’s many extremist policies that have been met with costly lawsuits in a state where residents are already struggling with costs of living.

DeSantis culture wars call for nearly $16 million in legal defense

DeSantis aims at Disney and hits Florida's


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If abortion is ok in the case of rape, then its always ok, because its not up to you to determine if she was willing when she got pregnant.

Once you create that loophole, all woman will say they were raped to get an abortion, and you will ruin countless innocent mens lives. The courts will be swamped.

So you either have to be against abortions even in the case of rape because the fetus didnt commit a crime, and lose all future elections, or just accept it as birth control.

If you call it murder, then you must prosecute mothers who leave the state to have the procedure done. Murder is murder even when you cross state lines.

 

Everyone calling it the woman's choice is using the legal definition.

There's no reason to use some made up philosophical definition for a medical procedure.
Which is why calling abortion a murder of a human being or a person falls flat.
A fetus fits neither of those legal terms. Legality is the only issue here.

For those that think it immoral, they can refrain from having an abortion. It's called, free choice.

 

It's the legal argument.

Your argument is the Argumentum ad populum fallacy among the self righteous crowd.
If the woman's life is in danger due to the pregnancy, if rape, incest, or the fetus is severely damaged, why should the unborn fetus have more rights than the living human being person?

 

Fetus is a human cell at conception. It doesn't get the term human being until it exits the womb.

This is a medical and legal issue, why do you want to make it about you?

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
IF it's murder ( and it isn't) then WHY do Anti-Choicers think it's OK to "murder" a fetus if it's the product of rape????

LOL Thank you for ONCE AGAIN proving that for Anti-Choicers it's all and ONLY about punishing women who have consensual sex!


It really isn't about that "precious , innocent life"...if the woman didn't consent the fetus ( to them) is just trash that can be eliminated, has NO rights and can be "murdered" WITHOUT HAVING COMMITTED A CRIME !!!!


The abortion of a fetus due to rape and the abortion of a fetus due to consensual sex have the exact same procedures and OUTCOMES..

 

Wah.

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So? All you've shown is that people like to sue. No surprise there. What you haven't done is prove your case for abortion. But you sure have spouted a lot of talking point rhetoric. Prove to me that a ZEF is not human and maybe you'll get somewhere.

 

No they're not. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to claim that its not human.

Where in your definition that you have provided does it not fit a ZEF? No where does it mention "born" or "unborn".
And I haven't called it murder.

I have only spoken of Rights, science, and history. Not a single person has been able to dispute any of those with any degree of logic or science.

 

If you like Nicaragua's and El Salvador's authoritarian regimes' control of wombs, that is your prerogative.

 

A fetus doesn't even have a SS #, a name, or a BC. It has no rights, but for those granted by the woman.

Of course the definition is referring to born.
Provide your definition from a source.

 

I have not made any arguments appealing to the populous. Show me where if you think otherwise. You can't of course.

I have in this thread already shown that I have no problems with making exceptions for rape, incest, and the self defense of the woman (life is in danger). You're going to have to do a hell of a lot better than repeating talking points that may apply to others, but don't to me.

 

Not medical. Legal issue yes. Not medical. Legal issue can be fixed to match with science and reality. Right now it defies scientific reality. Not the first time in history.

And no, scientifically a Fetus is the last stage of pregnancy....meaning its got a HELL of a lot more cells than just a single one. A zygote is what happens at conception. And by then it has multiple cells that has its own unique human DNA. What you were trying to describe, "a human cell" is what it is at the moment of fertilization. It takes about a week to a week and a half after fertilization for it to become a zygote with its own unique human DNA.

 

And that is something that is trying to be changed. The legal recognition of the Right to Life that ALL humans deserve. That it has no name, or a BC, or a SSN is irrelevant as those are just legal and social things.

Refer to any biologist or geneticist definition of human. The scientific community by and large has admitted that a new human life is formed at conception. There is no dispute in that. It is fact. Indisputable fact. The only thing contested is whether that human life, during the stage of pregnancy, is a human life deserving of Rights. IE: Philosophical question. All that I do is refer to science. The pro-choice side cannot make their arguments based on science, only on philosophical grounds and what is currently considered legal definitions, ignoring the fact that it is the legality side that is trying to be changed to include ZEF's. Just like it had to be argued for blacks to be considered as human beings at one point in our history. In today's society, the only ones actually oppressed, are the unborn.

 

Better to like those than to kill millions for the sake of money.

 

What part of consent to intercourse do you not understand?

 

The kid does not have any rights above anybody else's right. All people have equal rights. Why can't the leftists understand this?

 

And what if a woman rapes a man and gets pregnant?

The man gets the choice to kill or not kill the kid he was forced to assemble- see- Equal Rights. Consistency.

 

As I noted, if you prefer Nicaragua's and El Salvador's authoritarian regimes over advanced democracies, that is your prerogative.

 

If "advanced democracy" means the killing of millions for money, then yeah sure. :shrug:

What you are not understanding here is that to pro-life folks, its more advanced to acknowledge a ZEF's Right to Life than it is to deny it. So you're attempted insult is rather lame and fails. Yes, those particular countries have a lot wrong with them and no pro-life person wants those wrong things. But in this particular issue, they're more advanced because they recognize the Right to Life of the unborn.

 

And when it comes time to abort all of a sudden it wasn't consensual.

 

Then how about instead of going all fascist, and attempting to force people to do something against their will, you vote for policy that makes it attractive to have children.

Child care funding bills could be a start, as that is one of the largest barriers to having a kid.

 

In the case of rape it is not consensual. What are you trying to say?