Florida Teen Trans-care Ban Off The Table

A Federal judge has blocked a ban against trans teens receiving gender affirming care in, what I believe, will be the first of many challenges to these bans.

https://apnews.com/article/transgender-health-desantis-florida-033556c6a4c301d9ad342c74a6410800

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) — "Saying gender identity is real, a federal judge temporarily blocked portions of a new Florida law that bans transgender minors from receiving puberty blockers, ruling Tuesday that the state has no rational basis for denying patients treatment."

"The elephant in the room should be noted at the outset. Gender identity is real. The record makes this clear,” Hinkle said, adding that even a witness for the state agreed."

"(Judge) Hinkle said people who mistakenly believe gender identity is a choice also “tend to disapprove all things transgender and so oppose medical care that supports a person’s transgender existence.”

Banning treatment for minors ignores risks patients might face, Hinkle said."

As someone who was agnostic on this issue before all the bans started to appear this was the part that caught my eye.

The three children in the lawsuit will “suffer irreparable harm” if they cannot begin puberty blockers, Hinkle said.

“The treatment will affect the patients themselves, nobody else, and will cause the defendants no harm,”

I've always suspected that the real "patients" in this are the people who can't bear their sensibilities being offended. The number of trans youth is vanishingly small and the treatment protocols have been in effect for decades. Seems the recent focus seems more about political expedience than actually getting real patients the care they need.

 

The federal judge's ruling is most likely unconstitutional.
Being that this is in the South (Appellate district 11 which includes Georgia and Alabama) there's a high chance this could get overturned by an appellate court. It could even be headed to the U.S. Supreme Court.

I really think for the good of all, and especially to avoid setting another bad legal precedent, people need to be able to find a creative thoughtful reasonable compromise to the issue of teen transgender treatment. Something like allowing girls to delay the growth of breasts, and allowing boys to minimize (but maybe not completely prevent) development of masculine characteristics. This would put them in a better position to be able to make whatever decision they want to make later, without ruining their life now, given the possibility that they may be making a terrible mistake. (Basically allow them to do whatever is least likely to be irreversible, or whatever will minimize irreversible things from naturally happening)

 

The bill was sold as "ban on teen trans care", but it banned it for adults too. These FL bills are written so vaguely that they can be sold as anything, and later enforced against a lot more than what they were advertised for.

Never mind, this seems to be a different issue, so there must have been more than one Federal challenge recently.

 

That may or may not be, but courts only consider specific cases. This case and precedent dealt by this specific court does not seem to involve adults.

 

I disagree but no matter.

Maybe, maybe not.

I agree and that's what puberty blockers actually do. It's not until you get to the level of cross-sex hormones that changes become irreversible. Most teens don't start on them until they are 16 or older and have already been in treatment programs for many years.

 

Yes, I think there is more then one challenge. They were talking about adults in the local morning news here.

 

So, translation.... Liberal judge orders state of FL against their collective right as a state to create legislation in support of their citizens health and safety, that FL must allow children, not of legal age, to request body mutilation, and this judge believes by using language designed to whitewash the particulars folks will ignore it.

Where do these idiots come from? What or where is ANY legal precedent that allows judges to disregard the health and safety of children to advance their political goals? It's ghastly.

 

I think puberty blockers, as normally used, go a step beyond just preventing development of the gender.

Maybe if puberty blockers were used at lower levels. But probably most people are not going to view things like that, they're going to think in very black & white terms about puberty blockers (either "good" or "bad"), without really thinking about the subtleties or possible in-between options and possibilities.

To understand the issue would really require an understanding of the medical science.
I think there has to be some way to allow puberty while suppressing (or partially suppressing) specific gender characteristics.

Puberty blockers suppress more than just a specific gender development, however, and so can lead to some permanent medical issues, or prevent some important development (not specific to gender) from ever being able to happen.
If development is not allowed to happen within the narrow window of adolescence, that development may never be able to take place later. That's how it works.

 

Puberty blockers delay puberty, they do not mutilate people.

They delay puberty. They have been used for decades on kids who enter puberty too early, like at 7-8 yrs of age.

From what I have understood, "hormone replacement therapy" is a different animal.

 

Going up against big pharma will be tough. They will make sure children receive these drugs and that you and I pay for it. Does anyone know the long term effects of starting children on puberty blockers?

 

That oversimplification is not really true.

They can delay puberty, but those blockers can also prevent that development during puberty from ever being able to happen. The longer it is delayed, the more the window for development closes. Eventually the window closes and it's too late for any more development.

Those people can try to undergo hormone treatments later, but their bodies will never be the same as if they had undergone development during the normal adolescent time of puberty.

Any teen who takes puberty blockers for 3 or 4 years, there will be signs and evidence later for the rest of their life that they did not get the opportunity to fully develop. Like they may not be as tall, will have a smaller genital size, bone development and density, etc.
Typically 2 or 3 years might be mostly reversible, but 4 to 5 years during those critical years will leave permanent lasting effects that can never be completely undone.

 

Hard to do that without the medications that the proposed ban would outlaw. It is exactly what the very few involved want, a means to allow a minor to aim towards transgenderism and still leave the possibility of changing their mind.

The ban is political and has nothing to do with protecting children.

 

Many on the other side believe the same thing about pandering transgenderism to children.

 

Where do YOU come from? See #12. The ban is entirely political, aimed at stirring up fear among those who have no knowledge of how transgenderism works and no stake in the outcome.

 

Per this court decision Mommies and Daddies in Florida who got a little baby boy and wanted a baby girl are still able to use surgical and pharmaceutical means to change their kids' sex.

Who knows maybe one day their child will get famous advertising for a beer company.

 

Those who support transgenderism seem to have limited knowledge about how it works either.

Unfortunately, the person with the stake in the outcome is immature and of an age where often poor choices are often made.
Think about all the stupid things young teens do, or would do, that could wind up leaving them with permanent lifelong issues.

Teens are not permitted to borrow money or get a credit card on their own, for example. Lots of teens get stupid tattoos. Sale of alcohol and tobacco is now prohibited to persons under the age of 21. The laws in many places (especially Democrat states) are making it more and more difficult for teens to be able to drive a car.
If a teen can decide to get a gender change, do you think they're old enough to decide they don't want to go to school too?
Are they old enough to decide they want to start having sex with older adults? (You get the point)

 

Who is asking us to pay for it? Please cite at least one example.

As for you question, the tiny percentage of people involved in such decisions likely know what they’re doing, having used these medications for decades. Try googling it for yourself.

 

Transgenderism involves very few people with zero political power. Most could not care less about politics.

 

Parents are doing no such effing thing. That's a mean thing to say. Shame on you.

In the age of information, ignorance is a choice. Try not to comment on issues you clearly don't understand, and that have no effect on your life.

 

A small number of them are.
Some cases have been brought to the attention of this forum in the past.

Even if -- and this is just a hypothetical -- 90% of these young persons will have absolutely no regrets later, that still leaves a big "what if" for the remaining 10%.

 

Im not sure reasonable is a question here. The question is: can a minor make a legal decision or not. And the answer is no, not in any state in the Union, accept for perhaps this. The question, in my mind is how anyone could ever think that simple biology is harmful is beyond me. That we would allow folks suffering from gender dysphoria to make actual choices about their legal options concerning the availability of harmful drugs and surgery is beyond me. Parents are the legal agents here. A law that bans the ability of corporate medical providers from having access to impressionable kids offering them an illusion of "health care" that in actuality is irreversible body modification, this serves whom then? When we look at the economics of a "transformation", clearly, there are economic windfalls to medical facilities that accommodate these processes. Is that all y'all are interested in? Making sure that the law supports the continued exploitation of these minor children and their medical insurance providers? I don't see any actual value being proposed by the proponents of these "treatments", and in fact, they very much remind of of the "pray the gay away" conditioning that seems to be such a heart burner in the LGBT crowd. So why, suddenly, is it ok to Voodoo away biology in favor of a dysphoric child?

 

I googled it the other day and apparently there are no known cases where puberty was blocked permanently, but hormone replacement therapy can do that.

 

I googled it as well and came to a different conclusion.

If you try to "go through puberty" later, like at age 25, it won't be anywhere near the same.

 

Hmm... So, prove to me that as you assert Puberty blockers do not mutilate people. Demonstrate with a medical study that shows no deleterious harm from the use of them. More, show us the path a minor child would take given mutilation surgery reversal, if possible, and that said child could, or would continue to be a normal propagating adult subsequently.

I assume you feel that in this case, a minor child can make this decision. Find a comparable legal finding that supports your assertion here. And if you cannot, you cannot also find that the state would have a compelling reason to remove a child from the custody of their parents who might not support the child's wish to have reassignment.

When did you folks become the Mengele support club?

 

Sorry, your feelz here aren't a substitute for legal assessment. Sorry this is concerning to you. Making it illegal for medical, facilities to prey on the minds of minor children, to me, seems entirely reasonable to guard against, and the State of FL having done so seems an entirely reasonable step to take given the monstrous behavior of the medical Transitioners.....