another freedom taken away: "Resisting Arrest"

always enough cops to remove the bad ones, never an excuse to keep the bad ones

 

Just need more officers whose job is to watch and review field officers actions as well as create deterrents from criminals creating crime. The stand back and let the small crimes fly is leading to more aggressive criminal behavior. There has to be consequences to stop deviant behavior.

 

just need good cops to treat bad cops like the criminals they are, protect us from them

I agree with the second part, letting citizens get away with crime breeds more crime.... same with letting cops get away with crime... There has to be consequences to stop deviant behavior.

 

Exactly, for both sides. But, if you look at the number of officers and the number of crimes committed hourly, the criminal activity vastly outnumber the police officers. Thus, the bad cops or those who lose it while on the job is a miniscule number compared to hourly interactions between cops and criminals. Heck, I wouldn't doubt more criminals attack a police officer every single day than some rogue cop attacking a criminal by a large margin. Keep in mind every day, their lives are at greater risk for that $50-70k a year job than you will ever see in your lifetime.

 

Fundamentally, I'm in agreement here.

We need to be paying police a LOT more. They have a seriously tough job, no matter where they work. In many situations, their lives ARE in danger - even on traffic stops.

We need to give far better training as well as better support on the job. I took an adult education class with an officer who worked near Seattle. The department clearly had WAY too few officers, as he was constantly called in on his days off, and worked alone most of the time, regardless of what was being investigated. Once he got called out of class to literally watch a dead body. Nothing was going on - they simply didn't have an extra officer.

And, there does have to be some far better accountability, as having a racist police force is self defeating. We can't have officers killing kids who answer the door with their hands up - etc. The population is not going to trust a police force that does that stuff - even if few do it.

 

I would go as far as to say, hire a crapload of officers with much of the staff being support. I would like to see where officers only spend 24 to 30 hours in the field and the rest of the time at a desk or doing support work that way they don't get burnt out in the field. That way, they get additional training and oversight on how to conduct themselves.

As far as the officer who made the mistake shooting the kid, which is incomprehensible and hope the officer is given at least 20 years, I would like to add on any given day, some perp storms in someones house and kills someone. Out of the 660,000 officers out there now, how many times do you think an officer shot someone answering a door? I doubt half a dozen unless they were shot at first. So, that is still less than 1% compared to home invasion deaths which could go into the thousands. Funny how so many on the Left only view one side of the equation only because some mass media hysteria. Have to find ways to deter criminals from acting like criminals with prison rehab instead of incarceration with no rehab. And, the right is to blame for that. They have to learn how the world works.

Trust me when I say prison does nothing to teach convicts how to live on the outside. Some states have done away with the GED program even. I supervised a work crew of prison release program where convicts got to work during the day but report to prison at night. Most had been in jail at least 5 years. They don't know how wiht people on the outside are suppport to act. They take common traits as insults. They need to be reprogrammed to life outside of prison. A totally different world. USA has no prisons that rehab people for reintegration to society.

 

Good points!!

I'm not excited about measuring police conduct by the conduct of the average criminal, though.

I've taught college level math in a state prison. There ARE such programs we need a lot more of that. Prisoners had received a computer from a corporation with consent from mgt (of course). But the guards could not tolerate it, as the prisoners were getting more promising futures than they were. In the end, the computer and related programs were terminated due to this hatred.

My father and some of his friends (who had experience teaching college in the prison) started a halfway house in our home town. They selected a house manager from inside. There was a mix of people from the community and people from the state pen.

Most who came out were given $50 and a coat. It was a few miles into town, and most didn't come from there, so they had no support. I really think most spend the money on women and then threw themselves on whatever social support the city had.

A LOT more could be done. Not for all prisoners but there are a lot of people in our state pens and lesser holding facilities who should not just be held until turning them loose with no way to survive.

 

one would hope, those that wear a badge are not supposed to be criminals

there would be more respect for cops if they would police their own, if cops are too scared to police their own, how does one think the public feels

 

It may be hard for you and those like you to believe that actual human beings who are given Law Enforcement job are not robots, but actual human beings that can be corrupted over time dealing with deviant individuals on the street. There is a zero percent chance of eradicating cops from being corrupted. Zero. Mankind is not perfect. It is those who think they can enforce change while harming even more innocents who are the true idiots.

 

seems it's hard for you to believe, the rest of us know that and think we need the police to protect us from all Criminals, even if they wear a badge

 

They're all bad. The minuscule number of ACTUAL good cops don't last long...they turn bad or leave law enforcement quickly.

 

You have to get to serious extremes before finding any excuse for resisting arrest.

Our system depends on cooperation followed by court review. And, it can include suits for compensation.

Yes, the officers and person arrested may not know the law.

This is a reason we need well educated and trained officers.

 

I don't know when people will understand that you can never win a pissing match with a cop.

The place to have that battle is in court, not on the side of the road with a jacked up ego-driven cop.

Just do what the f*** they say and go home.

 

But that is completely besides the point. The point is that the person will face separate legal punishment, after the fact, by a court. Whereas that would not be a crime for the cop in that same situation, if things were reversed.
So there are clearly some double standards and power inequality.

(And no one is saying private citizens should have the right arrest another person for all the crimes police officers have the right to arrest a person for. That has nothing to do with the argument or situation being described here)

If someone has a police officer at gunpoint and tries to put them in handcuffs, it's not a good idea for that police officer to try to resist. But that has nothing to do with the legal issue we are discussing, does it?

 

Then that should also apply to the police officer, shouldn't it.

You agree that they should be punished for resisting, as well?

 

Absolutely there is a power imbalance!!

They are law enforcement - they are there to enforce.

 

There are strange edge cases, but I would strongly advise NOT to attempt to arrest a policeman!

This is not a situation where there is some sort of equality. They are enforcement. You are a person.

Follow orders. Then, talk to your lawyer, the judge, or whomever.

 

There is no way an individual can be sure that the person who seemingly appears to be a police officer is following the law, or even is in fact an actual police officer, rather than some criminal carrying out a deception.

It's very common for the person being arrested to be in a situation where they cannot be sure that the arrest is legal.

You seem to be deflecting from the issue. The police officer should also be under an obligation to follow orders as well, if another person has a legitimate and legal reason to arrest them.

You have not provided any logical explanation explaining why you do not support that.

 

Then it sounds like you do not believe in equality. Despite the Left's claims to the contrary.

This seems to be a clear case of supremacy of power. (And we are not talking about courts, or high level officials like judges or governors who everyone clearly knows has been designated to an official position of power)

In the old time South, it was the same way. White citizens could take matters into their own hands, but blacks didn't dare. Especially not when it involved confrontation with a white person.

You seem to be unwilling to recognize the parallels between your position and the racial supremacy system in the old South.

 

My point was simple but I guess not annunciated well enough.

It doesn't matter whether the cop is right or wrong.... You are not going to win a pissing match with a cop on the side of the road and only a damn fool thinks they can

 

Yes.

We give law enforcement the laws and procedures they must follow. That includes training, etc.

We do need to monitor this, as there are cases where law enforcement grossly oversteps - or even commits murder.

 

You are not equal with the police.

So, yes. I don't believe in equality in that case.

And, racism in enforcement bodies can not be approached by violence or uncooperating by the people at individual encounters with enforcement.