Is Jesus divine?

I guess you never heard of slavery.
Never heard of lynchings, after slavery was defeated.
Never heard of segregation of schools, buses, drinking fountains, restaurants, etc.

Which country do you claim to be a part of?

 

I don't want your false explanation.
I want the data with facts. Your interpretation is shown to be all wrong.

 

You now have no argument left in your false world.
You now have to go on ad hom attacks and forgo any valid argument at all. Not that you ever had a valid argument. But at least now you know it and show it by posting about me instead of the topic.

You waving the white flag is received and accepted.

 

But I know scripture. It's a matter of words.

 

Even the godless would have known a miracle.

 

We certainly have a bill of rights and an unwritten constitution which is updated by Parliament to be relevant to modern living.
Most of the world is concerned if Trump becomes the next POTUS for his attitude to 'Make America Great Again' at the expense of the rest of the world. The dollar is the world trading currency. In the 1900's the US suffered depreesions which aqffected the rest of the world. Again in 2009. You live in the US. You do not realise the way Trumps actions made the US a laughing stock worldwide - or at least Trump. Good luck if he becomes POTUS - you'll need it.

By the way, what were his successes. Obama had more success economically in bringing back the US to a state that led to a fairly stable ecomony - except for a year when even Congress was against him. Trump added more to your debt per year than any other POTUS, and probably more wealth for himself and his family when the truth finally comes out.

China is looking forward to an inward looking USA while it expands its influence in most continents. The US is almost surrounded by countries in debt to China.

 

No, I know I'm right.

 

That is part of growth towards the truth. The concept of equality had to be established first. Otherwise there's no cause to guide and impel. First came the workings of mens hearts which brought about the concept, which worked more on mens hearts. In the meantime our founders produced the DOI, followed by more workings in the hearts of the people. Then came the major hurdle of actually ending slavery which was accomplished thru another war. Then came overcoming the other things you mentioned. Some of our founding Fathers considered slavery a moral depravity from the start even thou some of them practiced it because that's the world they were born into. Over time it became more apparent to more and more people that slavery was wrong and out of alignment with equality. Things take time. If you want apples and plant an apple tree, it takes time for it to mature and bear apples. But you have to start with planting it. Such is the founding of American freedom. This is Gods country. And freedom is his gift according to the labors, faith, and sacrifices of those who've gone before us. God expects our participation in his work because we are his offspring.

 

Actually there were massacres against Indians by non-military godless just like you. Let's see you prove your charge that every unit prayed before battle. That's something you made up to make the godless look good.

 

A good many atheists know scripture. Right here in PF they quote scripture all the time. Probably far more than Believers. Scripture even says the Evil One knows scripture. It's all expected.

 

but never acknowledged it.

 

Maybe China is in your destiny. You live the way you do be caused America has bailed you out more than once. We live in freedom because we were delivered from your King.

 

And so we should all see what a useless myth "god" is.

 

For starters "the Philistines" never really accepted David in the Bible. However, the Philistines were newcomers to the region in comparison to the tribe of Benjamin which was tiny. For the most part, if you read most of 1st and 2nd Samuel, most of the scrolls revolve around a region of a couple hundred square miles or less - a very small region.

In that time period, the destruction of villages were rarely recorded because most didn't care and those that did and actually wrote it down rarely convinced the next generation to maintain the knowledge. This is rather well-known. Name 100 villages which were destroyed in North America in the 14th century. Nobody cared and nobody cared to write it down. This argument you have is silly.

I believe you're right about this, especially in the modern sense in which you're thinking. Like I've said before these copies of scrolls are no 21st century e-books. Many times people considered themselves to "rule" over a land if they could travel it without being attacked by rival leaders. No mention of David establishing any form of governance except over the small portion of land I already mentioned in Bible exists. The land mentioned is basically the extent of his battles - not his actual proper governance. David likely ruled over the cities he inhabited in the small region I already mentioned. The land he "ruled" split almost immediately after his death because he never had a proper system of governance.

Do you have anything to back this up?

Or do you expect me to believe everything you type anonymously on a Forum to be scripture?

Yes, the rituals were similar to many cultures at the time. But let's not chase a red herring please. stick to the topic - you said no person called David existed.

Sorry, not even close to a copy.

No. I haven't read this particular book. It's 35 years old and written by an Englishman. I rarely read religious literature from the 1980s - so much more was to be found out in the decades afterwords. I also find very little reason to read commentaries on the Bible as I have found that I have tend to have more insight than those who write them. My reading ability has surpassed the need for cliff notes.

Regardless, I don't think you've provided any evidence whatsoever for your stated belief that David did not exist. More important than that, what does this have to do with the OP? Did you notice the question isn't "Is the Bible a completely made up fairy tale"? Have you thought about starting your own thread?

 

LOL.
A civil war had to take place to put that truth into place. What a load.

 

A Revolutionary war too. Kings and Democrats are a stubborn bunch.

 

Youe are simply using the Bible. You say that the idea of Davids destroying villages bei9ng recorded is silly. Isn't it more silly to accept that David and his followers would even do this. The story is added for effect.

The story contains 4 battles against the Philistines. One supposedly near Jerusalem. Why would the Philistines want an area that had little value to them - and so far away from their other 5 cities along the caostal area. One can understand the Assyrians and Babylonians wanting north Palestine as it gave them access to the ports of Tyre and Sidon and the Medterranean ports elsewhere for trade. Maybe that's why they left the southern 'kingdom' free - after giving tribute of course.
Another point. Jerusalem had to be conquered by David yet the 'tribe of Benjamin' should have thrown out the Jebusites a century or so before. THOSE stories are the silly ones. One point. It has recently been discovered by DNA that the Philistines married within the local population. Hardly warlike attitude.
Do you have anything to back this up?

The stories of Abraham to Moses and an exodus have no evidence - except the Bible - to support them. Therefore the ancestors are simply part of the Bible story. Israel are reported to be in settled in Palestine in the 13th century. They collaborated with the other indigenous tribes to rebel against Egypt - and they lost.
The Hyksos are often mistaken for the Israelites as they were from the same area with similar clothing and customs.
David is only mentioned in the Bible - apart from a disputed tablet. IMHO his supposed actions are based on some of the events of Omri who is mentioned outside the Bible.
In the UK we have stories of a leader like Moses - called Robin Hood who fought for the poor people. Probably stories based on a real character but inflated.

The Ark of Anubis doesn't have to be similar in shape - just its meaning and purpose.

The book I mentioned isn't a commentary as such. It goes through I & II Samuel and notes different points of interpretation of the times in language etc. It's written by a christian.

 

"trevor2539 doesn't like it" is not a reason to discount what is written. Everything written needs to be examined and taken seriously. It may not be true. But the possibility of it not being true does not mean that it is.

Geography matters. Please study it. You can see the sea from Jerusalem. Jerusalem is high ground. the rest should be obvious.

Before you discount a written history - even a religious written history, one has to actually read it. Have you?

The reason for the Jebusites still being there is given in the Bible. And yes, even bloody Samson mingled with the Philistines.

And?

nonsequitur

No evidence for this.

Red Herring

So? Many leaders in the world at that time aren't mentioned at all.

Your opinion isn't humble if no one asked for it and you're giving it. Omri- the sixth king of Israel?

Ok. Clearly, Robin Hood didn't exist because the writers of his stories considered him not to exist.

So compare the writings. The characters of Robin Hood are simplistic and the plot is also simple. The story of Robin Hood changes with each retelling. The story was made during a time where writing was available and easy and almost everything was written down. At times we know how many cows lived in a hamlet.

The plot for Moses is complex despite having incredibly limited space on clay tablets the size of a hand. The story remains basically the same. There is almost no writing from that time period which has survived. So any minor or simply politically inconvenient event is likely not recorded. Other problems include the writing itself which clearly was peiced together from other sources as well as archeological evidence for some of the minor characters mentioned.

Which was also completely different.

What's the title of the book?

Don't care.

 

My own view is that much of the Bible is simply made of earlier stories and stories to give Israel a history. The era of the kings after Solomon is mainly proven Extrablically. Prophecy only exists in the minds of those who want to believe. Nothing in the OT refers to Jesus or the future. Someone once said that 'every prophecy ever made will eventually come true sometime time in the future'. As the Bible says 'Nothing new under the sun.' The Bible is full of silly highly exagerrated numbers. At one point Saul has 30,000 soldiers at his command. That's more than the Egyptian army of 20,000 at the Battle of Kadesh against 30000-40000 Hittite army taken from their Empire. 180000 thousand Israeli soldiers against 150000 Judean soldiers in another battle between mythical? states. Making the population of Palestine around an impossible 6-7 million. Jewish archaeologists are suggesting that there is no evidence for the splitting of the Kingom. If Abraham did not exist there was no 12 tribes (kingdom) to split. Just Israel.

Your views are interesting and I suggest we will never agree.

 

The USA bailed Europe out only because you were drawn into the war. That's not to say we were not grateful. Then it took us 60 years to pay off our financial debt to the USA and Canada.

 

So much for so called truth.
BTW - there were no democrats during the revolutionary war.
Another bogus statement.

 

Some people judge the Bible harshly in an unfair manner. This is a problem. People should not let their personal feeling get in the way of proper judgement. And I'll be blunt, a lot of people have been hurt or have felt like they've been hurt by the Christian religion and the Bible.

If an Egyptian King is mentioned, do you say the King doesn't exist unless someone in Lybia mentions them? Do you hold the Egyptian histories to the same standard? But you might claim, "But the Bible is a religious book and has a bunch of stuff which can't happen!" Were the Egyptians any less religious? Are the inscriptions not found in temples, or burial sites where the king was suppose to enter the afterlife?

And one can continue with inscriptions in Central America, China, and other places. People should not judge things unfairly just because they hurt them personally.

I agree, Jesus isn't specifically named nor identified. Some possible mentions but nothing slam dunk.

Prophecy of Tyre didn't.

A lot of the numbers are messed up in the Old Testament as they are in many, many ancient histories. A lot of time the numbers in the Bible are chosen to convey meaning such as when all good kings reign 40 years. Others are matched with previous numbers like the population numbers of David and the Exodus. And there are quite possibly translation errors which occurred. In some cases, 50,000 for example could have been translated incorrectly from 500. Problems with using letters as numbers. Regardless, it's no reason to discount everything.

Yeah. I'd like to know who those guys are - probably Israeli - not Jewish.

Chasing another Red Herring?

 

Weren't you lucky!!! (I'd call it Divine Providence)

 

Our founders had to pry our nation from the grip of the King in the Revolutionary War, and blacks from the grip of Democrats in the Civil War. Even today, Democrats enticed blacks into the shackles of welfare so as to do Democrats bidding. They swapped their hoods for suits. But their nature hasn't changed. Say it ain't so. Best hurry and paint another picture, and close your eyes to reality. Do you want blacks to be free or do you want them to tow the Democrat party line. Democrats have purchased them. And blacks have sold themselves. Like Biden said, if a black person doesn't support me, that person isn't really black. The psychology of it is cruel and abusive. White Democrats don't consider blacks as equals, but as play things to be manipulated to do their bidding.

 

The Egyptian Pharaoh mentioned certainly did exist as the events mentioned are part of artcheaological history. Cities in Palestine which were damaged or ruined by the Egyptian invasion 13th century BCE.

Tyre is still around and if you believe in prophecy it could still happen.

I don't discredit everything regarding numbers. The problem is that Christian teachers who believe in the inspired word of god when speaking of the Exodus do not mention that the numbers might be wrong. Or that modern evidence proves events are wrong. You only have to read the adherence to the 'inspired word' and the problems if brings to todays society.

The supposed 12 tribes are the basis of the early Bible stories. If they did not exist then what are we to take as truth.

Who were the 12 tribes of Israel? While the obvious answer is that they were the descendants of the 12 sons of Jacob, things are not nearly so clear, depending on where you look in the Hebrew Bible. In fact, as pointed out by Andrew Tobolowsky in his article “Were There 12 Tribes of Israel?” in the Winter 2023 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, outside of the Bible, there is practically no mention of the tribes of Israel at all, at least until long after the biblical period.

Searching for Tribes
Besides the possible mention of the tribe of Gad in the ninth-century BCE Mesha Stele, historical sources from the Iron Age (c. 1200–586 BCE) are silent on the existence of the 12 tribes of Israel. Indeed, not even ancient inscriptions from Israel and Judah make mention of these tribes. So, did the 12 tribes exist?
Looking for the 12 Tribes of Israel - Biblical Archaeology Society