Breakthrough promises $1.50 per gallon synthetic gasoline with no carbon emissions

IMO our federal fuel taxes should be twice their current amounts. The infrastructure in the USA is crumbling which is either due to a lack of taxation or an incompetent government. Where I live I dodge potholes every single day! Large potholes that will cause major damage! What kind of nation are we in which we are incapable of filling potholes? If we can't fill potholes, how can we ever expect an improved and safe infrastructure?

You are certainly correct that if gasoline tax income wanes due to other energy options, those other energy options will soon find equivalent taxation.

Regarding infrastructure and CNG/LNG converters, and other energy options available to consumers, all of this will be provided by the private sector. But it won't be provided until a profitable and sustainable market exists in the eyes of the investors. As long as consumers refuse to demand options to oil/gas, the private sector will not respond...and this is wise. So if it was ever possible to find consensus on other energy options, whether it is electric or CNG or LNG or whatever, perhaps with this consensus the government can help with the development of the infrastructure...

 

I saw this article in the WSJ today, it addresses the fact that there are truck fleets switching to natural gas.

One item reported in the article surprised me, it quotes a $30,000 conversion cost for a truck. That is big bucks!

I posted a few lines from the article that interested me. You should read the whole story.

 

I would imagine there were logistical problems when we went from the horse and buggy to the automobile.

I bet they were even bigger logistical problems than switching to natural gas...but here we are.

 

I'm sure that you are right about logistical problems regarding fuel at the dawn of the horseless carriage age.

 

more proof of how (*)(*)(*)(*)ed up our laws are-converting it would make it cleaner...but they didn't consider that.

 

IIRC, it covers replacing an engine with one not certified in that body, for that model year...but it only goes back so far..i hope. i replaced my OEM 2.8L with a 3.4L that is in the same block as the original, but Goodwrench markets as different engine.

 

GM has bi-fuel CNG/gas trucks out later this year.

 

Remember the time frame when this law was written, 1963 and 1970.

Back then the issue was not fuel at all (or even emissions), but about polution. And at that time, the issue was commonly with people converting from gasoline to diesel. So most of the laws in regards to fuel are dealing with issues like that.

Nobody back then could have imagined what would be the issue 40+ years later.

Remember, this administration is trying to pass a very specific agenda. It really does not care about jobs, or clean air or green fuels, but about control. And the current administration has stated that gas is to cheap, and that we have to many cars on the road. So if there is a real solution, they do not want it. They want ways to keep cars off the road, and high gas prices or horribly expensive "green" vehicles (like the $32,000 Chevy Volt) that really do not use "alternate fuel" at all.

They certainly do not want us converting our current vehicles. Because then they loose the money that they would get from incredibly high taxes for the Volt and other such nonsense programs.

 

http://www.ngvsnow.com/facts.html

Excerpt;

According to NGVAmerica, of the more than 10 million natural gas vehicles (NGVs) in operation around the world only about 130,000 NGVs — about 1.3 percent — are in the United States. The top five markets for NGVs are Pakistan, Argentina, Brazil, Iran and India.

Approximately 20 percent of public transit buses in the U.S. run on compressed natural gas (CNG). In Los Angeles alone there are more than 2,800 NGV buses in operation. States with the highest consumption of natural gas for transportation are California, New York, Texas, Georgia, Massachusetts and the District of Columbia.

NGVs have also become popular among many types of fleets besides public transportation, including taxi fleets, courier and delivery fleets, government and police fleets, community fleets, and trades and commercial fleets.

The concept of using CNG or any alternative form of fuel from our current gasoline machines has the 'change stigma' associated with it. Just like many other forms of 'change', the answers are not typically in the nuts and bolts but in getting the masses to 'change' their behavior...to accept change. This is stupid but it's like asking someone who drinks Coke to switch to Pepsi, or Miller to Budweiser, or a Dem voter to consider a Rep candidate, etc. etc. etc. We hate change and usually need to be hit in the forehead with a 2x4 before we take action...

 

Well there are quite a few '32 Ford roadsters out there with a few extra HP's so there must be some cases when the government does not care??

I suppose the rub is the legal liability when we change the HP or center-of-gravity, etc. and insurance companies won't provide coverage on a Corvair with a jet turbine engine...

 

even CA allows you to mess with a '32...the Covair wouldn't be a problem as long as you only had PL/PD and State Farm didn't look under the hood. <--- they're the only company that i've dealt with that emphasized that speed modifications void your insurance. not that you couldn't say it wasn't for speed.."yeah, it was for towing! yeah, that's the ticket!"

anywho, it appears that i'm safe since all the original emission controls were replaced...on the engine. hehehe

 

That's not true. Currently we don't have a cheap plentiful source for H so you're correct - making it is energy intensive. But if we had a bunch of free hydrogen it would make a very efficient fuel source, even with current technology. And there's a lot of promising research that indicates cheap hydrogen is completely feasible.

 

That's not true. Gas is about 47 MJ/kg. TNT is less than 5 MJ/kg.

Compressed hydrogen (at 700 bar, the way it's used today) is about 120 MJ/kg

Considering H is the most common element in the universe it's likely we'll be able to figure out how to get it, and cheaply. There's a lot of catalytic work going on right now that avoids the electrolysis energy suck. We've never had any incentive to produce H at industrial levels and it's easy to get in small amounts. We've only been working on the problem for a couple of decades, and not at all frantically. It took 40 years of serious government investment from at least two world powers to turn ENIAC into the Macintosh. There's no way we won't figure this out.

 

No, because they get the extra horsepower by improving the engine and sometimes with additives. They do not change the actual fuel used in the vehicle (gasoline).

And no, there is no problem insuring and registering jet powered vehicles. The MTT Turbne is a jet powered motorcycle, and Jey Leno owns one. He has shown it often for documentaries and even takes it to bike and car shows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvIi17by5W0

He also owns an Eco Jet car.

http://youtu.be/Usg7QduJqgA

But none of these involve changing the engine or fuel system, it is a new vehicle built this way from the ground up.

You can change the engine in a vehicle all you want. Take a Toyota 16R (4 cy 1.8L gas) engine and replace it with a more powerfull 22R (4cy 2.4L gas) engine, nobody cares. I have even done that myself, the only time it came up was when I smogged it. But change the 16R to a 2B (4 cy 3.2L diesel), then you are in for some trouble.

 

Come back and see us when this is a reality, not a pipe-dream I have been hearing about for over 30 years.

And it is more then the hydrogen itself, it is the mechanics that go into making this a working vehicle. Most know what cars cost today. And Toyota is one of the leaders in trying to reduce the cost of a Hydrogen vehicle.

They shook the auto world 2 years ago when they claimed they could reduce this cost to only $50,000 (most are from $175-500,000+) by 2015.

http://www.insideline.com/toyota/2015-toyota-hydrogen-car-will-cost-50000.html

Now how many people can afford $50,000 cars? The problem is not just the fuel, it is the vehicle itself. You could make a car that runs off of urine. But if it costs $1 million to buy one, you are not going to sell very many.

 

There are a few items listed in the driver's license handbook that are required on an automobile, like windshield, mirrors, brakes, muffler, etc. and somewhere there are surely some emissions requirements; IMO we should be able to modify any vehicle into anything we desire as long as it meets these requirements. It is really stupid for government to tell me I can't make a steam-driven 1976 Cadillac...

 

In BOLD above I would need to drink lots of wine before going through the process with government and insurance over a jet-powered vehicle!!

I would enjoy having one of those government vehicle inspectors take a ride in a turbine-powered vehicle...

 

If you combine sodium hydroxide with aluminum you get oxyhydrogen.

This could run an engine with a byproduct of water and you would not need an air cleaner.

Don't know what it would cost however.

 

Well, it's never going to be a reality unless people do the basic research. And like it or not within the next, say, 50 years or so we are going to need something to replace oil. Whether it's H or something else I don't know, but you do agree that we have no choice in the matter, right?

Are you saying it's impossible? Or just that you can't be bothered?

 

This is the problem that is hampering all current and future use of "alternate fuels".

For one, we have the potential to convert a lot of current vehicles to use alternate fuels, but it is illegal to do so. I do not know about you, but most of us do not have the money to buy a new vehicle. Heck, I am 47 years old and have never bought a new vehicle (I simply refuse to take that 20-30% first year depreciation). So unless we are allowed to convert our pre-existing vehicles, these will never be more then a small portion of the market.

Imagine if solar energy was done this way. "You can only put a solar system on your house if it was built that way when it was new.". That would be insanely stupid, but that is how the Clean Air Act is when it comes to alternate fuels for a car. Unless you get it like that brand new, you can never do it. This needs to change.

And huge amounts of money are being dumped into "future pie in the sky" solutions, instead of working to do what is possible now with current engines ad technology, and working on future systems at the same time. We can do propane and natural gas now, we can even do hydrogen burning cars now (hydrogen internal combustion engine). But instead of working with what is possible now, we see the government dumping tons of money for technology that will likely not be affordable for decades (hydrogen fuel cells).

To me, the stupid thing about how the quest for alternate fuels is that it is being done as an "all or nothing" approach in the US. Allow us to convert our existing vehicles for a reasonable amount, and you will likely see a lot of people converting. I can justify spending $3-5,000 to turn one of my current vehicles to LPG/CNG/Hydrogen ICE. But I can't justify (and most people can't afford) to spend $20,000+ to buy a brand new electric, hybred, or other alternate fuel vehicle.

And anything is possible. It was possible to have a computer in your home in 1970. But in 1970 your typical computer was in the price range of $200,000+, so obviously this was not the case. Right now it is possible to have a CNG or fuel cell car. But they are so horribly expensive, they are ony used by a few businesses or rich individuals that can fford them (and usually get them more for tax purposes then anything else).

 

i could have sworn Ca had an exemption for "alternative fuels".

 

??? you sure about that? i know you'd get hydrogen gas, but the only way i know of to make Brown's gas is electrolysis.

car's are being modified to run on HHO, mostly as an additive. how well it works depends on who you ask.

[video=youtube;2xHvEsUv0wg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xHvEsUv0wg[/video]

 

I think is was Mushroom on this thread who says alternative fuels ONLY on new vehicles and it is illegal to convert a gas or diesel to CNG or anything else...including converting gas to diesel...

 

when i was young, there was always some guy with an alcohol powered daily driver that would turn 10s at the strip in the car mags.

FYI, gas to diesel is just stupid-the engines won't handle it. the amount of work to make it work would be more than a lifetime of the price differance....kinda like buying a Volt.

 

OK...How many gallons of LPG would it take to let a car run 400 to 600 miles? Even a 5-gallon tank of LPG can be quite heavy.