Hi, everyone. I'm a liberal Christian. That means roughly that I affirm that God exists and that God resurrected Jesus, but not that the Bible is inerrant or that the world is six thousand years old or anything like that. As a starting point for a conversation, I'd like to hear your reasons for thinking my position is irrational or false. Regards, Occam
Welcome! The beauty of your post was you represented you The rest is up to you when you read what is real. My question to the liberal Christian(s); does truth supersede belief when witnessing as an individual?
Why hello there Bill, nice to meet you. As for you conversation starter, I am not in a position to call your belief false. No-one is. Because a god is infinitely good at hiding, should he wish to be. Therefore, looking for reasons to think that your belief is false couldn't possibly be a rational way to determine whether or not you're correct, and that is why the question and reasoning is irrational. Welcome to the forum. Edit: Wow, I sound condescending. Try to read the post in a voice that doesn't sound smug.
It's for example irrational to say "If I am not irrational then the world is older than 6000 years". The question "How old is the world" is for example not a christian question at all - but the idea to quantify this date came indeed from the christian culture and civilization. I often have the feeling arguments in the english speaking world are following forms like "You believe in blue but white is younger than the rainbow so you are wrong and I am right" followed from a sentence like "I wan you lost and the winner takes it all". First: If I understood you in the right way then you believe that someone could believe that the earth is 6000 years old and if somone would really believe this then he would be wrong. But no Christian believes so - that's not a problem of the christian belief at all - that's a problem of knowledge and education. That's a problem of school, maybe even a problem of politics. Second: If the sentence "God resurrected Jesus" means that you don't believe in the triune god then it's nearly impossible for me to see in you a Christian. What's your church, your confession? By the way: I'm a Catholic. ¿Is this enough irrationality? http://youtu.be/bh3rsLYCtsw
I'm a Christian because I find the arguments of Christian apologists persuasive. I don't think I can persuade an atheist to accept Christianity, but I do think I'm reasonable to be a Christian based on the evidence that I have. We can discuss some specific arguments, if you like.
I was asking if your honesty and your personal responsibility to reality is more important then witnessing what is believed? For example; if you met a flying spagetti monster that waived a tentacle to make a dead person walk, would you call him god over any religious belief? Or if you realized you were a life as capable as gen 3:22 claims, would you witness that, rather than of magic people supposedly riding colored horses and eating seals or is it opening them?
good, because it is what the second part was asking too If your statement is pure then you don't need to label yourself as being something you are not.
As a Christian myself I can relate. I have often been uncomfortable with the inerrant theology. No where does the Bible claim to be, rather, it simply claims to be inspired by God. So the logic is that if it is inspired then it is inerrant. This is an ASSUMPTION. However, I take issue with the notion that the Bible leads us to believe falsehoods. I don't think that the case either. For example, I believe in creation, but also believe that the earth is far older than 6000 years. I really enjoyed a book by Dr. Gerald Schroeder who suggested that the disconnect comes with translation. The original Hebrew reads differently on the matter than English translations. He then brought up ancient rabbis who translated the text into laymens terms as proof of his arguement. It really is a fascinating read. I also do not believe that evolution and creation to be necessarily mutually exclusive.
When you think about Genesis 3:22 it's easy to see how absurd it is. A person could never live forever because he was not present at the beginning of time. So even if a person today lasted from this minute for all future time he would have never lived forever. He would have missed all of the past. It's comparable to stories where people made deals with the devil. Think first, second, and third before agreeing to any terms.
And the Lord God said, 'The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live for ever.' So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. http://youtu.be/_JJx_NkT2N4 Why do you think I was not present at the beginning of time? Sure I was. The causes for my existance were present 13.7 billlion years long. I'm sure someone who is able to change something 5, 50, 500, 5000 ... or even 5 billion years ago would be able to erase my existance today completly. What do you call "think" in this context? A message of mine is for example sometimes that everyone is an answer to everything what ever had happened before him. And exactly the same message - in other words from a turkish source - I heard some days ago in the end of a german film with the title "Almanya". The film was made from and about turkish immigrants in Germany. A very nice film - I had to laugh a lot - but I guess only Turks and Germans are able to laugh a lot about this film. Nevertheless I was astonished to hear this message in the end of the film. http://youtu.be/htEyPqZl6ys http://youtu.be/E4gKjLa0G0A
I don't think there's any way to completely avoid that possibility. You can always say, "what if you're wrong?" However, if the doctrine is true, then hopefully being honest will lead you to it.
Stop there. You and I were there. The first life procreated and cells divided and generation lived on during all them years. They couldn't send it in a 'text'. But if there ever was a break in your chain since the beginning of time, your light wouldn't be here! That comprehension also brings (raises) your fathers and mothers of all pasts to the flesh, in you. You are them. Honor them Enable life by choice, with your knowledge and live forever in what you do. Think of yourself within this ocean of existence. But you can tap the surface by choice and if your waves combine with other waves that live longer, you live longer, literally. Ps.... You practice death of conscious awareness each night you sleep but still Alive just the same. Appreciate every moment, cuz you're there, now!
It does not. It says 6 days. So we have a general calendar from the generations mentioned in the Bible since Adam to give us a ballpark of what time creation occured.
"Genesis and the Big Bang" is the name of the book. Essentially he uses a handfull of rabbis who from a premodern science age to show that their interpretation of the Hebrew version of Genesis indicates that the 6 days of creation were far longer than a literal day. They came to this conclusion directly from the text and passed down information. He then adds some theories of his own about what a day entails. His theory is that the universe is about 15 billion years old and that each day time halved. That means that day one was 8 billion years, day 2 was 4 billion years, day 3 was 2 billion years etc. Interestingly, the days then match up in terms of life sprining up in the ocean during the Cambrian explosion etc.
