Austin cops supplied incriminating devices to Occupy protesters

I look at the society we live in today. The people I deal with on a daily basis. The way they live their lives. The choices they make on a daily basis. I take all of this information and when I look at it the only conclusion I can draw is that the American people have lost all sense of Values, Morals, and Common Decency.

 

Very well said.

The words of you, and Mr Truth, are those of true good men, and upholders of liberty.

It's going to get worse, before it gets better, for Americans that dare show dissent to those that have robbed them, both of their national wealth, and of their civil liberties. Keep an eye of the Dept of Homeland Security. Why did they recently make such a massive and unusual order for hollow points bullets?

There will always be traitors and control freaks willing to put on a uniform, and even kill their own countrymen though.

And those that cheer them on.

 

I agree.

When, in your view, decade wise, did it really start to get like this?

Approx...

 

I would suggest that it probably started seriously in the 1960's, but it's been slowly gaining steam since the first decade of the 20th Century.

 

Fine.

Not saying you are right there, or wrong there, thanks for the answer.

Now.

Let's try to nail this.

Now, name some things, that happened in the 60's, that you feel lent itself to Americans not being able to think properly etc, for themselves?

What events may have started to take place, in your media, politics, education, etc, all the key structures, that may have began to change things for the worse, from the 60's onwards?

 

In the 1960's we saw major shifts in the attitudes, personalities, and belief systems of the young people in this country. We fixed the civil rights issues with african-americans, but unfortunately carried that on to the equal rights amendment, both of which lead to affirmative action laws. It was a time of social unrest caused in large part by our stupid war in Vietnam, which followed on our misguided UN mission in Korea. These young people rebelled against pretty much anything they felt was a symbol of authority and/or the traditional way of doing things.

 

We have people in place to apprehend extremists. You don't get busted unless you seek out a terror cell, get contacted by these people, and then are shown to have the intent of killing people with what is provided to you.

It's not just an American thing either. Multiple countries use this in law enforcement including probably your own country as well.

 

You do accept, of course, that mass media is corrosive, right?

In the era that you mention, there were over 50 independent media companies.

This is key, esp in a nation of high population, like the US.

It is healthy.

Then *someone* began buying up all those newspapers, and media companies.

Sometimes, this *someone* would use a number of underhand means, to ensure that they could enable this.

In a very short time, they gave you five massive and profit driven, lying, medacious, corrosive, media, that has been PUMPED into the minds of at least one whole generation, or two.

You know that if you have control of the media this way, then you can literally partake in a form of social engineering.

Did American films from the 50's have the level of filth, depravity, vulgarity, distortions, misanthropy, etc, as they do today?

Did American tv has as much violence, filth, depravity, as it has today?

Did your music industry have artists that engaged in the lowest possible levels of depravity, both in how they are, and what they sing about?

Were your people generally more community spirited, than they are today?

Was the financial state of the US, better then, that it is now?

You had no enemies in the Middle East, back in the 50's. Why do you have so many now? What changed?

Do you feel your State has drifted further away from the common man, and that in the 50's, they far better represented the common man?

Would you agree that most modern politicians merely serve the interests of a tiny minority, that you do not fit into, that is a few billionaires, and a particualr foreign interest, that actually does nothing for Americans?

Do you believe that when an authority has wormed it's way in, and been utterly corrosive, that it is actually more patriotic to defy it?

Jack

 

Jack,

In reference to your early comments.... Pretty much ALL media is corrosive in one way or another. Local media fails to show the big picture and is often used to fuel vendettas and feuds. National media gives the big picture without the personal side. All media today provides the story they want you to hear rather than "Just the Facts", which is what I would prefer from them.

You are correct about the level of filth and depravity that now exists in our society which did not exist to anywhere near this degree prior to the 1960's. In the 60's the younger people shucked off the "oppressive" ideals of Traditional morals and values as a means to rebel against their parents. Since that wasn't properly squashed it simply expanded until the monkey can no longer be put back in the cage to stop the pooh flinging.

The financial state of the US is directly related to that loss of morals and values, along with the ridiculous idea the 1960's children came up with that everyone should have the same things as everyone else, whether they deserve them or not. The massive expansions of welfare, unemployment, food stamps, etc... along with the creation of affirmative action and other costly initiatives have clobbered our budget.

The issues in/with the Middle East related mostly to the massive increase in oil usage here in the United State and our unwillingness to actually look to home-grown oil to support our needs.

Not really. I think the bigger issue is that the "common man" of the 1950's IS the above average man of today. The level of person who is now the "common man" is much lower than it used to be.

I wouldn't say MOST. I would suggest that it's really a pretty small group of leadership level politicians who are really attached in that manner and that the rest go along with it simply to get along. They know where their bread is buttered and don't rock the boat. I would suggest that situation is as it is because the People refuse to punish these politicians for being that way.

Definitely. The problem is that it was these people of the 1960's who are the corrosive factor; not the people of the 1950's that they were defying.

 

People need to realize one very important thing: there was no police force in NYC until 1825 ~ well after almost all of our Founding Fathers expired. Our Founders did NOT intend to give anyone the authority to suppress free expression or to assemble as they pleased. If our Founders were alive today and saw a Rodney King or any other citizen getting beaten by police or having fake evidence planted in the name of the law, they would be the first ones to resort to weapons in order to put a stop to this vicious government intrusionism. This is is precisely why our Founders created the 2d Amendment ~ to stop ALL forms of government suppression of people's rights.

 

Thank you Mr_Truth.

 

So you are suggesting that we should not have ANY Law Enforcement Organizations in the United States?

 

Did you actually READ what I just wrote?

 

Yes, I most certainly did. You emphasized the point that New York City didn't even have a police force until 1825 and the idea that the founding fathers would be displeased with the very basic methods and ideas of modern police work.

 

Okay.

Here's what I think to be true, based on having, some years ago, began to looking at this, and paying it great scrutiny.

I do broadly agree that there has been an absolute decline in basic morals and values, among Americans, as you say, both in society, and just as crucially, at levels in politics and outwith the democratic process.

But it is those who have imposed their will as the authrority who have, in practice, socially engineered this.

It was no accident, it was by design. Those that have done this, they were well familiar with the Acsch experiment, and the potential power of media.

Why do you think large companies spend vast sums on advertising the latest I Phone? Because the manner in which they construct their message works on a psychological level, and creates a mass, whose minds are watching the ad in an alpha mode state, and you end up with a mass of people discussing whether they should get the new I Phone or Blackberry, rather one of many millons of important things that they could be speaking about.

This then extends to the creation of a society, made obsessive over materialism and possession, with no sense of loyalty of true values, which naturally self destructs from the bottom up, and the top down, as ants would do, if every single ant could never reach a consensus, when it came to creating their nest.

Just a mass of people, getting into further debt, making rich men richer, having to work more hours, to pay for worthless garbage, to impress people that they don't even like.

Add to that the fact that the quality of programming and news media is nothing short of crass propaganda, the erosion of any values, the promotion of all filth, degradation, violence, etc, that you can imagine, the promotion of people in the MSM there who are, just quite frankly the worse of people, thick, rude, crass, I am thinking a Bill O'Reilly or Pamela Gellar.

A music and entertainment industry, owned and run by men like Sumner Redstone, if you know anything about developing minds,you will know that if gangsters in music, and what amount to actions to kill, are seen as mainstream and acceptable, and even 'cool', then young people are going to copy what they see, and with horrific results.

Or when it comes to abortion, I am not outright anti abortion, I don't really want to dwell too much on that, however, the scale and culture of it is just too much, but one must ask, how did it get to be that way, when did we go from most girls choosing to go through with the pregnancy, to so many feeling that, for whatever reason, they should abort?

There is a happy medium, I think some of the comments by the like of Paul Ryan, just illustrate his crassness and tiny brain, but for sure, through a gradual change of culture, and a society that could absorb it, I would love to see a shift down the way, in girl choosing to terminate. This is different from what you have now, which is almost carte blanche for abortions to be done, very late term, as long as the $$ is there, to do it. And on such a massive scale.

But you need to look at the names of the people that hand a key hand in making that legislation what it is, if you feel it lent itself to these high abortion rates.

You have high crime rates, in many parts of the US.

Very dangerous.

Why?

No one ever wants to get into the why.

Mainly what I said before + poverty.

If you create a one dimensional and materialistic people, who measure all on what sort of car or watch they have, you then create, it is logical, a mass of not well off people, who also want to be measured by their car or watch, but due to socio economic reasons, they have no chance of getting it, by flipping burgers, so they turn to crime.

There are more layers to it, but I truly believe that is a major component.

And then you need to look at what your state do, often without the approval or even knowledge of your people.

Their record is not one of values, ethics, honour, or any of the things you wish to see a society built on.

On the contrary.

They are the MOST culpable of destroying it.

Jack

 

You need to re-read it or have someone read it to you. This because you see absolutely nothing of the kind in my post.

Had you bothered to actually read what I wrote in total context you would see that my objection is to police intrusionism into people's lives. Nowhere in the Constitution is the government allowed to plant weapons on anyone, to make unlawful arrests, to harass innocents, or to obstruct anyone's free movement or assembly. Nowhere. Look in the Constitution all you want but you will NEVER find any such thing. For you to say that this is basic police work is utter lunacy.

Interestingly, when the IRS or FBI does that to white supremacists, the right wing gets all up in arms about it. They start to say people need to gather up their gun powder because Obama is going to take away your weapons (the stupidity of it being that it was REPUBLICAN Bush who took away weapons in NOLA during Katrina).


You obviously have no understanding of the law, the Constitution, or the original intent of our Founding Fathers. One simply cannot engage in an intelligent dialog on these matters with someone like you who is so lacking in the fundamentals of these Truths.

 

I have an understanding of what the law SHOULD be, what the Constitution USED to be, and what the Founding Fathers intended. Mostly because my family was here when this nation was founded. Your problem is that you folks have totally twisted and corrupted what the Founders intended to see in this country.

 

Which folks?

I blame organised Zionist Jewry, most of all.

The more it has eaten into your media, and your politics, the worse things got.

 

I have mentioned enough times on this forum that I have a law degree and have worked as a research historian for several scholars. My knowledge of this subject far surpasses yours. Some members of my family were here to greet Columbus. But that's a different subject.

 

As far as OWS go, ask this.

Who has the most interest in using their media to discredit what are, in the end, Americans, who are probably from approx the same kind of background as most of us - very down to earth?

Easy....the financial fraudsters, that do not want, nor will they tolerate, nor can they tolerate, the light being shone on their theft and rape.

Why not? It is obvious - if the people knew to quite what extent, how long for, and what it meant, that all these parasites have done, and are answerable for, the people would want them tried for treason.

Bernie Madoff types and higher up, would be getting arrested, and facing long jail time.

As they should.

Therefore, these same crooks, with the money that they misappropriate from people, they use a % of that same money, to buy the media, to sell the idea that ordinary people should hate OWS, because they are (whatever slander).

In short.

Whoever the MSM are trying to tell you is to be hated, is not to be hated.

You have more in common with the people they are trying hard to get you to hate on, and that is one another, so that your eyes are not on them.

It is OBVIOUS.

 

My apologies. If I'd known you were a lawyer I wouldn't have wasted my time responding to you in the first place. I have ZERO respect for that profession and those who work in it.

 

Don't write him off due to his profession.

You may have just cause to dislike the profession, but it would be foolish to discard his knowledge of law.

Put it this way, since your Gov have gone rogue, and are there to serve only the interests of the few, and I mean the FEW (and even then, those few are not Americans), and since you may one day find yourself fitted up by this rogue Gov, then you may need someone that knows their way around law.

Jmho.

 

I have no use for that profession. I do not intend to be taken alive. If I am, I will choose to not cooperate with the system in any way.

 

You already are.

By your previous stance, you are, by proxy, absolutely doing the work, of those that have not only caused the breakdown in values that you cite, but probably want you dead.

You want a society that is more respectful and less crime, good, I share that notion.

But you do not get it by panderinf to the authority of the very men that don't care about you and I, or such things, all they care about is taking more of everyone's liberties, and capacity to call them out, away from them.

Therefore, if you are true to your own values, you would most surely hate the present 'authority', and refuse to partake in any of their rules.

 

What I was suggesting is that if I happened to be arrested, I would not cooperate with the attorney, LEOs, etc... If they wish to try me in abstentia, fine; but they will get no assistance from me.

No. What I want is a system that ruthlessly and brutally seeks out and destroys crime, BY WHATEVER MEANS ARE NECESSARY. Respectfullness is merely a byproduct of that sort of system.

In my mind, most Americans do not deserve the Liberties or Freedoms which this nation provides for them.

To be true to my values, what must be done is for the Authorities to be granted additional powers, not a reduction of them.