How key is it for youth to learn at least a second language?

What a coincidence. I love linguistics tho I am no expert. I'm sort of fascinated with Catalan. Your description of SE Asian dialects and languages is interesting. The history of regions is what we are led to in these studies. Asia is a mystery for me. I spent so much time getting a decent grasp of our western heritage I have never delved much into that area. As far reaching as Africa and the Mediterranean to Alaska and former USSR , Asian influence is worth a good thorough study. Thanks for the brain jiggle!

 

What I was referring to was if I wrote down the way this guy spoke English it would be almost be indeciphable, taking into consideration his pronunciation, grammar etc.

There still has to be some basic rules to English language otherwise we'll end up with gibberish. The problem with English is it isn't phonetic, where written English doesn't match spoken English with many words.

As an English teacher, I'm aware of the nuances between say British English and American English. This is often discussed in the classroom, even at fairly low levels. As long as students are made aware of the differences, I'll turn a blind eye to what form they use. But one thing I do clamp down on are words like "wanna", "gonna", "gotta" etc. These have no place in the English language classroom at this point. Maybe in the future yes, as English isn't a stagnant language and these forms may become more acceptable in the future, even in academic English.

Look,, when I was at school, even at university, I was taught "English" English. I use English English today and will continue to do so. My children and grandchildren probably may use a combination of both. Who knows?

 

I'm no expert in linguists either, but I love doing the research. Fascinating stuff.

It's the differences in languages which defines ethnicity,, along with religion, history, customs and even artwork.

 

Yes, yes.
One quick anecdote from my own reading: A particular (and small) example of the American surname "Masters" was at one point actually "Mestre" from an Italian isle. The transition came when the British Empire acquired another island this family had moved to near Spain. It could have been the name a census taker or employer wrote down, or they could have taken it for themselves, but that one little change meant they were more acceptable to do commerce and blend in when shortly thereafter they immigrated to another British colony here in what is now America.
**If you come across something you think worth passing on to another language buff, please PM me.

 

Do you not understand the basic difference between a written, and spoken language? There are two different languages, for chrissake. When you speak English and know how to read and write, you already know two languages. The one which isn't spoken anymore, the written form. And the other who is spoken differently depending on where you live. Call it a dialect if you want. But take care.

 

Did I say that English language isn't phonetic? Therefore written English is a tad different to spoken English. I doubt there is a perfectly phonetic language anywhere in the world today. Could be a good research point.

There are also quite a few languages that don't have a written form. One in particular, from my neck of the world is Hmong. It wasn't until around 1952 when a Frenchman actually wrote the spoken language down phonetically. He wrote it in Romanised script. Seeing it written it looks really weird, because of Hmong vowel and consonant combinations in their spoken language. What's also unusual is here we have a culture going back several thousand years which never developed written language.

Just because you speak a language doesn't mean you can read or write it. I can speak and understand German (my mother tongue), but I can read or write it. I was never taught.

Children, irrespective what their mother tongue is or where they live will develop language in exactly the same pattern. Firstly learn to listen, then speak, then usually while attending school, read and write.

 

Correction - I can't read or write German.

 

Because it's another language, which has yet to sink in, for you.

 

Read my previous post, German is my mother tongue. I was never taught to read and write the language.

 

I hate teachers. There thick. Written German and spoken German are two different languages that's why you can't read or write German but can speak it.

 

Nope,, I was never taught German formally. I never went to school in Germany. My entire education was undertaken in Australia.

"There thick"- possibly you should have paid more attention in class

 

But I think German is a hard language to master. It has to many exceptions which do not apply with any other language and have no reason nor guideline.
I thankfully learned it in my youth, but it's not a language I'd want to force anybody to learn.

The easier the language, and the more clear it's grammer the better.

In my mind the best language to being used internationally is English (because it's easier) or Latin (because of it's very clear rules)

 

You may be confusing Normal German, written or spoken, with Technical German. They are almost 2 different languages. I've sat with German born, well educated Germans, in Germany and tried to translate Technical German into English. Basically these individuals with college and advanced degrees could not translate the Technical German into English.

 

I don't know much German but from what you say they are most probably two different languages. It's a lot more complicated than that, but basically dialects are a made-up concept, to give a higher political status to official languages. They don't teach that in high school, but it's basic general linguistics at university (when I say general linguistics, I don't mean the study of some languages, although it's part of it, but the study of language as a science: Saussure, Chomsky, etc). The language you speak is not the same as the one you write, I've been telling lizardbludge several times but he refused to get it. Too bad. Perhaps someone else will. I don't really mind I've already made my homework.

 

Well when I'm in Germany I can both read and speak German. NOT fluently but enough to get by. However I'm lost with Technical German. There seems to be NO Latin or romance languages in Technical German so one cannot dissect words to try to discern their meaning.

 

Yea but you were taught both languages, written and spoken, correct? I first learned English at school and, although I could read and write without difficulty (written English), I was never able to really speak and understand spoken English before I moved to the US, to learn. The fact that lizarddust cannot read and write German but can speak it, comes mainly from this, and that he's an Aussie bludger who never tried to learn written German.

 

The only language school I ever attended was in the military and that was Vietnamese. German is/was self taught, Berlitz. Once I thought I had managed a bit of German, I tried it out on my next trip. I was staying in Bavaria. They speak Bayerische. For instance A roll in German is a Brochen [little bread] In Bavarian its a Semmel.

By the time I'd leave the tent during Oktoberfest, I'd be fluent in German, and in sluuur.

All the Germans I did business with spoke perfect English. It was out of respect, not necessity, that I felt I should learn their language. I tried whenever possible to stay at the same quaint small hotel, and the effort to learn the language, however haltingly, got me invited to sit at the Stammtisch. Which I took as an honor.

It also allowed me insights into the deterioration in East Germany and the changing attitudes of West Germans to that division. Over the years the attitude went from, "That is just how things are." to "We are one people separated by a repressive govt." And I learned there was a vibrant underground economy going on under the Communists noses. Just from learning a bit of the language.

 

Well that's nice of you, but we were having a convo on the major difference between a written, and spoken language (they are not the same language). Since you lack expertise in German, perhaps in English? Do you realise the English you speak is different than the one you write? Do you realise they are not the same language?

 

Good one Paris. The orginal Australian meaning of "bludger" is "someone who lives off the earnings of a prostitute"

Look, I was only four years of age when we migrated to Australia. There would have been enough pressure on me learning English, going to school and just fitting into Australian society as a migrant. My parents quite quickly became totally intergrated within Australian society. They rarely then and now have contact with the German community. All their friends are Anglo Australians, although my dad's best mate is a northern Italian. Very slowly German language was watered down and English (with a splattering of German) became the household language. Within five years, my mother could read a novel in English, and still does. I moved out of the family home at 22 as a student. From that point on, my German took a real nose dive, if you don't use it you lose it. Today my German is at an adolescent level. My vocabulary never developed beyond this.

Don't forget, we have been in Australia longer than in Germany. My parents have been back twice for holidays. My parents are now elderly and when alone together they speak more English than German.

 

There are also quite a few dialects in Germany besides Hoch Deutsch. My father can speak Hamburger Plat, the dialect from Hamburg (were we are from). It's a totally different language. I remember as a very small child him speaking it with his friends. But I still do remember some words and phrases. This was one dialect Hilter banned. Hilter hated Hamburgers and vice versa. Today it's once again being taught in schools as an elective.

My mother does't know this dialect.

 

True in many languages. I had an office in Texas. I could barely understand some of the girls. There I learned that Dan has 4 to 6 syllables. Da-yay-yay-n.
I was on a cruise talking to a couple from Scotland. They were speaking English. I could understand her most of the time. I haven't a clue what he said the whole time. Nice fellow tho!

Bavarians also speak Swabish. That's closer to normal German but heavily accented, "normal" German.

 

Even in tiny Laos with a population of around 6.5 million people there are different accents, even differences in vocabulary. This is not to be confused with language differences between the ethnic groups which are totally different languages.

In Australia not so. We don't really have different accents when you look at the size of the country. But there are some small differences in vocabulary between the states.

 

I mean bludger in the sense of lazy and I am joking of course. But it's funny you don't believe me. You learned most of your German as a kid at home, apparently, so you are able to speak it. But since you never learned written German at school, you cannot comprehend it. Because they are not the same language, it's that simple.

I suppose you know the difference between prescriptive and descriptive grammar? Prescriptive grammar is what most teachers do at school and it's brutal, but they did away with the sticks and hitting other people's children who did mistakes nowadays. And descriptive grammar is what you do when you study a language in real life.

 

Spanish is going to be the international language in 20 years, so lets all teach them that. Anyways it'll help everyone get jobs in Mexico.

 

I doubt that,, maybe in the Americas but not in Europe and definitely not in Asia.