Debate against Anti-Abortionists and Pro-Life followers

first i want to state that i think abortion is a right. i think abortion is tied intricately to finance but pro-lifers simply do not want to admit that part straight up because finance and money are, i want to say this first, artificial and fake - it's make believe by a printing press. life is not.

most anti-abortionists draw from their arguments with backings deeply rooted in the bible.

most pro-lifers think a fetus is a life simply because they think so.

sorry for being crude or at times going off topic but i usually argue in analogies.

buddhists should all be vegans but i've seen some eat fish and eggs.
all christians should be devout followers in the teachings of god, but some of the most hateful, racist, malevolent criminals within the history of the world were also devout christians.

i've read on here that some people are taking slavery and comparing it to abortion.

they say slaves are properties of the owner and so their life belongs to the owner. if the owner wants to kill his slaves, he has the right to do so.

they are comparing slaves to abortions because a woman is labelling her "Baby" as her property and therefore, not of a separate identity.

i think if slaves back than had guns, they'd fight back and eventually they did.

can a fetus fight? can a fetus think? can a fetus believe in god? no to all 3.

if you think a fetus can answer yes to all these questions, you deserve to make an argument.

abortion is like mercy killing. because the mother has the capacity and right to make such a decision and its hers alone to make and nobody else's. why is it her's alone to make any nobody else's? because it's her organs and ovaries, simple. one day, when you are the mother, you will understand.

abortion and abstinence are two completely different issues.

people, if they want to have sex, it is not about the consequence. sex is a right. pregnancy is a right. money worship is a right.

prostitution is a right.

child labour, practised all over the world, and is at times called a right by lunatics.

rape is a right because pro-lifers believe even though a woman is raped, her child is still a child, with complete disregard for the future or mental state of the mother. how cruel is this? pro-lifers seem to care nothing more than if the fetus survives. it's like a rhino charging forward and completely disregarding ALL other facts or feelings.

life is much more than a fetus. if life were all about a fetus, than why is sex pleasurable? why do people have ambitions? why is there constant class warfare?

let me tell you, life is a struggle and abortion is a means to end such a struggle before it has the potential to start.

making a business out of excessive babies, who eventually grow up without care, who eventually either become criminals or worse, is not a very standing argument. for once, i hope pro-lifers can see the consequences of a baby without money to feed it or a caring environment, and not to mention the health of the mother in the first place is so her life should be in danger.

the arguments made by pro-lifers regarding abortion is absolutely petty and pitiful. most pro-lifers argue that if you don't want pregnancy, do not have sex.

so if i don't want my neighbour to be greedy and rich, can i kill him? since he is taking my money indirectly in unlawful ways. resource in the world is limited right? but is pleasure limited? should pleasure be limited? when did we all become so castrated? when some over the top dude thinks they have the right to tell others what to do simply because they think they have the right to - like an abusive partner or religious fanatic.

it is easy to give a solution that completely and absolutely ignores the problems.

humans have sex for reproduction and pleasure. we have the ability to mitigate pregnancies if such pregnancies occur and become a burden both financially and medically. we've achieved such a scientific feat and it simply is beneficial if we need it.

the key words here are finance and health.

should sex only be available to the well off? should sex only be available to the healthy? should sex be limited to tradition? as we all know, well off and health have deep roots and relationships in finance throughout history.

the well off owning many women and making babies like no tomorrow while their religious zealots indoctrinate society into believing that anybody who is less well off - either divinely or financially - deserve nothing more than to be born and to die and to receive no pleasures in between - including sex.

sex and food is a primal urge. these pro-lifers are completely disregarding what makes us humans. they are throwing in weak arguments that have no bases other than - a fetus is a life. you're right a fetus is a life, so is bacteria. when i put my finger down on a table, i kill millions of bacteria in one swipe.

please present a stronger argument on why you are a pro-lifer because honestly, i think pro-lifers care about nothing but themselves.

the real crime, is you see a problem and you don't do something about it.

if sex is a problem, EVERYONE's genitals should be locked up until they are ready to make a baby and than locked up again after they have had sex. and babies should be limited to just 1 / person / couple because why should another person be allowed to have more sex?

after all sex is bad, it makes people pregnant and only those who people think can "afford" a baby should be allowed one. i use the word "afford", key word remember, because the reality within our capitalistic world is you can not nurture a baby without money and we all know one thing about money - it's artificially engineered and controlled.

too many reasons to list here in regards to what pro-lifers think but their main arguments, let me reiterate, are - money, religion and chauvinism.

forget about infatuations, romance, feelings of love. why do we need all that?

you can teach people only so much about STD, pregnancies and morality, but if they want to do it, they will and it is not about the law but it is a natural right that is given to those born. we do not have the right to impede other people's pregnancies especially when we all have separate bodies.

the yahoos on the other side of the world who are pro-life need to wake up and realize they can not step on other people's basic rights to happiness and health. this does not include fetus or bacteria.

PS: the day the bank can start pooling everyone's money together is the day i agree with anti-abortionists.

all other arguments from pro-lifers are a fail.

 

ArcadiaX said

Then because it is a right…It would logically make sense that you are also pro-death/abortion until the ninth month in the womb. If its a choice for a woman at one month…her rights to her body should not change in later months. The rest of this sentence….wow…what the heck are you talking about?

So logically the people like yourself who are pro-death….are all pagans…atheists….moral relativists….and have no morals except those you make up that only apply to you. Live and let live…..what applies to you does not apply to me.

Then logically most pro-aborts think that a fetus is not alive at all. They also do not take what science says about when life starts…into consideration. The sad thing here……..SCIENCE IS ON THE SIDE OF LIFE….NOT DEATH….it denies what you say is right….life does start at conception. I have done pro-life work with atheists before…..they rely on science to know what you masquerade as the truth is a lie.

Its the ignorance that gets me….the fact that you obviously do not consider what science says at all. That you would think that just because I do take the Bible as the Word on this…that I would totally ignore what science says also. Your the one doing that not me.

Not worth replying too….you obviously hate Christians. We can not be perfect…and because you don't get this…your view is totally ignorant about what the scriptures say. You have no idea why Jesus came…so you wouldn't understand any dialogue with me about this. You need to educate yourself.

Yes the pro-aborts do. They thing a pregnant women is held in bondage….and that unless she has the capabilities to kill the life inside her…she is a slave. Its your side who think carrying a baby is slavery. Did your mother feel that way when she carried you? LOL

A child growing in a womb..is not a part of the mother. Louise Brown the worlds first test tube baby…was not conceived in her mothers womb…but moved after she was conceived in a Petri dish. She used her mothers body as a safe place to grow. We each had our own heart…blood supply….DNA….fingerprints….organs….My childs life was his own. I willingly took the risk to get pregnant….and I had no right to kill that which I consented to take the risk to have. No owner had the right to kill slaves…..no woman has the right to kill her child.

How many fetusus if they could shoot would kill their mothers? Or kill the abortionist as he/she is about to dismember them alive?

Abortion is the furthest thing from mercy killing that there could ever be. The mercy would be if the person who was doing it…suddenly died. I am a mother…I do understand. I aborted my child….ironically the only one on here that does admit it….so I know both sides of this issue…unlike you or anyone else. I would assume that other women are lying based on statistics of how many abort. But not many women will admit it…for all the obvious reasons. So don't tell me I don't know. Abortion is horrendous…and it leaves scars on most women it touches. The emotional scares you have no idea what they do. So don't tell me abortion has anything to do with mercy. Unfreakinglyunbelievable that you would have the gall to say this.

No they are not. If more women would remain abstinence there would be less abortion.

It is about consequences. If someone has unprotected sex with someone with a disease…whose fault is it? Sex is a right….and it can cause consequences devastating for some people. Look how many people have STD's in the world. Would you be upset if you got one and the person who you had sex with did not tell you? Who says they have to tell anyone….isnt that their right? LMAO You liberals are all alike.

And rape is a right….and honor killings are a right…..and child porn is a right…as is child abuse….right? Are they all rights?

And the pro-death crowd says kill kill kill for any reason….and kill at any time…even nine months. I do not believe rape is a reason to abort. It is not the childs fault his mother was raped. Abortion only adds one more wrong to the equation. AGain you don't take the unborn into account.

Life…you talk about life…..the way you define it. You do not recognize the life in the womb as anything. You make no sense whatsoever here……wow. Because something is pleasurable does not mean we should act it out..not if it hurts someone else.

How would you know? what do you know about life? I doubt you know anything about fetal development to even hand in on that conversation….potential you would not know about.

You are deciding for another human life what its future will be. Say did you come from a perfect home? No problems…no poverty….everyone happy….healthy….no imperfections….problems? Should you have been killed…or people in your family? You are saying that a child who MIGHT BE BORN INTO A HOME THAT IS LESS THAN PERFECT…IS BETTER DEAD…for all sorts of reasons you have no idea might not happen. Your position, stance is…….IT MIGHT…SO THE UNBORN IS BETTER OFF DEAD. How nice that you were allowed to be born to express those views. LMAO

I think you should buy the group another round of drinks….cause man oh man….what you have said here…well….its bizarre to say the least. You are on one side then the other….make no sense whatsoever. It is easy….very simple really. If you don't want to get pregnant you don't have sex. If you do get pregnant you allow the life you took the RISK TO HAVe….to be born. Its called taking personal responsibility by doing the right thing. People make mistakes…and believe me abortion is a mistake you can never undo….never. Your position is pathetic and sad….it is cold on the most basic human level.

LMAO….Again you make no sense whatsoever. You are the ones who don't care about humanity…about others…only yourselves. Look up the word…narcissist….that describes your position. You have no idea about this topic and by your questions you have clearly demonstrated this.

Have another gin and tonic.

And what morals do you have that you stand on? Where do your morals come from? LOL Can't wait for this answer...

 

And I am still waiting for his answer…………...

 

Morals .. God was pro Abortion so it must be ok.

 

Thats it? How do you know God was pro-abortion? Was he also pro-rape and child pornography?

What would you know about God?

 

And I am still waiting for his answer……….

 

Same logic could be used to advocate the killing of welfare recipients - since they aren't able to survive on their own independent of a greater host (the taxpayer) which they leech resources from like a parasite without the taxpayer's consent. And taxpayers would have a financial motive for terminating welfare recipients.

The Bible never says abortion is wrong, so it's a moot point.

 

These people would be the first in line to drop ole grannie off at the corner euthanasia…assisted suicide clinic. They are no use to society in fact a drain on people…they are better off dead.

The Bible does say abortion is wrong and it especially stands up for children….because Jesus loves children both in and out of the womb. Why not…He is the creator.

 

What does rape and child pornography have to do with abortion. Give your head a shake.

I am just going by what are said to be "Gods Laws" in the Bible, by the actions of God in the Bible.

God specifically commands abortion in the Bible.

 

Giftedone said,

Point…The people who are pro-abortion…believe that life is cheap and that women should have the power to kill. They want laws on the books to protect that power. So if women get laws to support something as heinous as abortion, then why would they also defend someones rights to do anything less….? Are pro-abortions rich in the "faith in god" department? What makes the worldview up of a pro-abort? What is their worldview and how does abortion affect everything else in their lives? They look away, ignore the life in the womb…so why wouldn't they be people also that would look away at other issues as well. Maybe the rape could be justified? And child porn….if one can kill a human life in the womb…why on earth would they care if someone was into child porn. Don't they have a right to do it?

You are not a believer that much is obvious. Could you please post the scriptures where God condones abortion….please use both O and N Testaments.

 

i am going to tie money with my argument because it always seems to me that pro-lifer like to tie $$$$ to everything.

pro-life and its consequences have been made into a commodity.

human resources is in high demand because rich people have turned everything into a commodity and therefore need to cut costs by raising human numbers to cheapen labor.

why is it every time i hear a pro-life backer, especially someone from GOP, it always comes down to money - especially some grandiose delusion that they are paying for the abortion?

and than they turn their own financial delusion into religious obligation and self-righteousness.

it always goes back to money. don't have sex if you can't support a child. sure so instead should we pay for prostitutes? who has the money, you?

so should only the rich be allowed to have pleasurable sex because they can support a child? what can't a poor have sex? why does MONEY always have to be inserted into the equation? it seems only the well moneyed get to do things and everything must be measured in dollar signs. this is how materialistic and intoxicated the rich have become with their own dirty money that they think nobody else deserves anything in life but them.

they will control scientific progress if they can (Hypocrites), all in the benefit for themselves and to create a commodity out of scientific progress. if they can't control or own it, they don't want you to either and in this case, your vagina and the ability to abort a child if you can't financially or medically take care of it.

and since they can't control a doctor, they will make it into a law. and since making it into a law is kind of hard, they will insert god's will - perfectly dodging their own desire by pushing all responsibility into god's hand.

daddy died from over working so now his children will serve as replacements to plow and sow.

it's sickening how cold the dirty rich and their obsessive desire to control things through money have changed and crashed this once great nation.

do not mix money worship and religion with human nature.

and do not hide behind god and use him as a scapegoat to absolve your own accountability in regards to your own sinful lust and greed by projecting such sins onto everyone else.

everyone deserves the pleasures of life and everyone deserves a happy life, regardless if they are rich or poor.

the biggest crime we can commit in humanity is to see suffering in life and not do something about it in the first place.

you see a fetus, and you call it life because "god wills it", but you disregard seniors, child prostitutes, war veterans, homeless, poverty-stricken demographics and crime ridden neighborhoods by creating and immortalizing your glass ceiling wall to further segregate and divide society between rich and poor and than in the end, you come back and tell the very bearers and carriers of life (Women) that they need to listen to you because you have money and they don't?

the pinnacle and hypocritical self-righteousness - sickness at its finest.

 

ArcadiaX said,

Money…? And those who are pro-abortion believe that abortions should be paid for by taxpayer money. They are the ones driving up the debt in the country.

How so? The consequences you don't seem to comprehend…is the unborn killed in the womb. We want to keep this fact in the forefront…right in front of your eyes so that you can't get away from looking at it.

You jealous? That through hard work and labor people gain wealth?

That is a lie. It comes down to….ITS A LIFE. That life is something you don't see…because you don't care. Your the type of people that if slavery were an issue today you would be fighting for slaveowners rights…and not the slaves.

And why should anyone be forced to pay for a woman's abortion? Especially if they are morally against it?

Yes…especially when we have an incompetent president driving us more and more in debt. Don't have sex…if you can't take responsibility for it….ok What is so wrong about that?

Boy are you fixated on the rich. Jealously is a terrible human emotion. It does not matter if someone is rich or poor. You should think before you act…and you should take responsibility for your OWN ACTIONS…and not blame society, or anyone else. Stand up to the plate and account for your OWN wrongs. If it were not for the rich…who would have anything? They employ people…put them to work…give them chances. Shouldn't doctors make a higher wage than a factory worker? The hours of studying the dedication and commitment they make, the cost of schooling…you don't see this as being more important than some other job? What do you have against people who get off their butts and make something of themselves?

It is sickening how this country and its people turned their backs from God. Do not blame the rich. If you are a believer then you should not covet or be jealous…and by this post…its dripping in jealously. People come to America because of opportunity. If you blew yours…you can't blame someone else. Money did not destroy this nation…the morals of its people,, that is what is happening.

What about your conduct? What have you shown people here about yourself?

You have a skewed view of what is important in life and money in relation to happiness. You assume everyone who is rich is happy. They say the happiest people on earth live in countries where they have nothing. There is one thing that is a fact….death, disease, misfortune also comes to the rich. Its not all wine and roses. You are bitter…and you blame. Why? Yes everyone deserves to be happy….but life is life and things happen.

Example….Teenage girl and boy fall in love, they are so happy. Girl gets pregnant on prom night. Relationship changes. Boy runs. Girls family is poor. She has baby. That one act of happiness has not only cost the girl her youth…but now she is strapped with a baby, her parents have to raise. How many lives affected but he sex act that felt so good. Who is deserving in this?
I could think of a million different situations……the fact is we all suffer…rich or poor. Look what happened to Bernie Madoff…had everything wealth beyond belief. His son kills himself. Look at Michael Jackson….the doctor helped but he mainly did it to himself, famous musicians and drug related deaths..
Google "suicide and the rich" and look at the amazingly long list of people who had it all and ended their lives.

You think the rich do not give to charities? Do you defend the unborn in the womb?

Who says we disregard seniors? OMGosh…your unbelievable. I guarantee that we do more than you do. You are obsessed…….beyond belief…and your hatred is unreal for people who are rich.


The sick people are the ones who want abortion legal.

 

I disagree. The sick people are the ones who want to make laws to force religious beliefs on others. I am not a fan of Sharia law.

It is equally disgusting for people to force their will on others by making laws based on fallacy.

What is also particularly disturbing is when someone is shown the fallacy of their position yet continues to not only maintain this position but force others to adopt this position by creation of laws.

What is this sickness that some want to control others so badly ? That they are so arrogant as to still want to maintain this control even when they realize that they have no valid arguments in support of their beliefs that they use to justify this control.

 

Easy done:

Abortion:

Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry. Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”?

Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery. This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.

Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.

Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.

2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?



Infanticide:

1 Samuel 15:3 God commands the death of helpless "suckling" infants. This literally means that the children god killed were still nursing.

Psalms 135:8 & 136:10 Here god is praised for slaughtering little babies.

Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be “dashed upon the rocks”.



The murdering of children:

Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”

Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.

Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.”

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”

Judges 19:24-29 “Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man’s house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.” To put it very bluntly this poor, young lady was murdered by her mate for being raped.

Exodus 12:29 God killed, intentionally, every first-born child of every family in Egypt, simply because he was upset at the Pharaoh. And god caused the Pharaoh’s actions in the first place. Since when is it appropriate to murder children for their ruler’s forced action?

Exodus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents Joshua 8 God commanded the deaths of 12,000 men, women, and children of Ai. They were all slain in the ambush that was planned by god.

2 Kings 2:23-24 The prophet Elisha, was being picked on by some young boys from the city because of his bald head. The prophet turned around and cursed them in the Lords name. Then, two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two of them. You would think that God could understand that sometimes the youthful make childish jokes. Calling someone “bald head” is far from being worthy of death.

Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.”

1 Samuel 15:11-18 God repents of having made Saul king since Saul refused to carry out God’s commandments (i.e., Saul refused to murder all the innocent women and children.) At least god realizes what an immoral, murderous pig he is on this one.

I Kings 16:34 Laying the foundation for a city using your firstborn child and using your youngest son to set up the gates.

Isaiah 13:15-18 If God can find you, he will “thrust you through,” smash your children “to pieces” before your eyes, and rape your wife.

Jeremiah 11:22-23 God will kill the young men in war and starve their children to death.

Jeremiah 19:7-9 God will make parents eat their own children, and friends eat each other.

Lamentations 2:20-22 God gets angry and mercilessly torments and kills everyone, young and old. He even causes women to eat their children.
http://www.evilbible.com/god's not pro-life.htm

 

She probably won't ever respond MegadeathFan. Most Christians, especially the ones who tout right to life and bawl "But the CHIIIILLLLLDREEEEEN!" absolutely refuse to address the clear evil and murderous side of their own deity.

 

Bobody is "pro-death", no wonder your hyperbolic rant is ignored.

 

In her case she cant even tell me why human life is special - no joke.

 

God is not pro-abortion. Give me scriptures…..

 

So you don't want any laws at all because that is what you are saying. It is sad that you believe the unborn in the womb even at nine months…should have no rights that its mother should be able to kill them. That shows where your heart is…or lack of one that is. Your argument is for no laws….everyone doing what they want to do. You obviously do not have morals and don't like others who have them.

 

I work…I own businesses….unlike you probably who sits here all day with nothing to do…mooching off the government.

No morals….pasithea……sad, pathetic….

 

rofl I work in retail and come here to debate on my time off, just like you do, DERP. I don't mooch off the government at all, whatever made you think that? And what does this ad hom have to do with the topic at hand?

Your deity has no morals. He can't even follow his own rules. Sad, pathetic. But of course you'll never address that now will you? Just going to attack the person instead right?

 

No, that's not what he said. Please make an effort to understand what is posted. It may be necessary to take off the blinders.

Ah, no more arguments, so now come the personal attacks...

 

The answer would be that the quotes are from the OT and that God made a New Deal with mankind when he walked the earth as Jesus.

 

I think pregnancy is a host-parasite situation.

 

Yes one the woman allowed to happen.