Heroin. Destroys society + why you are being lied to.

No. They are not society.

 

and before that they used alcohol.

 

Of course you are. You have a choice: pay pennies to keep them dosed, or dollars to keep them from robbing and killing you.

You sound like Rush...

 

psssssssssssst. hate to break this to ya buddy but ALCOHOL is a drug

 

Different thing.

 

Heroin is on the uprise.Far more popular than Crystal Meth.In fact, it
easily overtook Meth the last decade by about 30%.
In some areas Heroin is more available than Pot.Easier to score than
Pot.
Of course the same old urban myths about Heroin abound.
Kicking a Heroin habit WON'T kill one.That is part of the Heroin
users lie.It's like a really bad 72 hr. flu.

 

If you make something more accessible and more socially acceptable, more people will do it. And highly addictive substances will create more addicts with minimal effort. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. There's nothing predestinationist about it.

 

the ones that will become heroin addicts would have become addicted to something else if heroin wasn't available. the number of addictive people is a fixed quantity.

 

There have been long running programs in the UK and (I believe) Sweden that prescribed daily administration of heroin to groups of long time addicts. They found that once the enormous cost of being a heroin addict disappeared (they were given the drug for free, but heroin is out of patent and so inexpensive to produce it might as well be free) a majority of the participants found work and pretty much resumed their lives. Still addicted to an opiate, of course, but they maintained jobs, payed taxes, and kept out of trouble. I'm going to dig for more specific information - it was a few years ago that I read a few articles summing up the finding - one was publish after one of the older participants died at the age of 80 or something. I think the studies are still ongoing, but I could be wrong. Anyway...

I'm not saying heroin addiction, or any addiction for that matter, isn't a serious issue. But I do think that the lion's share of the problems associated with heroin today are the result of prohibition and not pharmacology. We spend so much money both domestically and internationally, to eradicate, interdict, imprison, etc and we still have a problem. One that could be ameliorated by spending a tiny fraction of the current costs.

We should eliminate all the policing and investigation. Take the whole nest egg we currently spend on the war on drugs (estimates vary but seem to converge around 15 billion per year) and, I don't know, use it for something useful like funding free daycare or something. Whatever. Do something good with 90 percent of it, take the remaining pocket change and build a bunch of serious rehab facilities all over the country so people who want help can get it.

This would save tons of money, freeing it up for programs that actually produce positive results. Overdoses would drop, people could get the help when and if they wanted, and for those who couldn't get off the drug they could continue to put into the system rather than take out. It's a win win for everyone.

 

So you would be willing to pay, say, $100.00 not to help someone rather than 50 cents to save them? Why do I suddenly feel like the true conservative here?

 

It's counter intuitive, I know, but this hasn't proven to be the case in Portugal, which decriminalized everything in 2000 or so. All the bad numbers dropped precipitously - HIV infection, deaths by OD, petty and violent crime - even overall usage. Sometimes it's easy to overlook real solutions because it doesn't seem like they would have a chance of working. We would be seriously remiss, don't you think, if we just dismissed this approach as "obviously" the wrong choice without genuinely looking into it?

 

I shouldnt have to pay anything period. How about you lefties pay for their drugs and you can let them live next door to you and you can drive them to get their free drugs at the clinic every day. We will see how that works out for you in your neighborhood. If it cost pennies then you guys should have no problem donating to the heroin fund for your little friends.
Secondly, you dont condone bad behavior it leads to more bad behavior. That should not have to be explained to adults.
Thirdly, here is MA where we have nothing but liberal judges, the heroin addicts are commiting crimes like burning churches, robberies, vandalism, home invasions it goes on and on and the judges let them out as fast as they get arrested. The people who broke into my house and destroyed it were caught a couple months before doing the same thing and were let out on 500 dollars bail.
If any of you think you are going to give heroin to an addict and they are going to happily get up and go to work and not commit crimes and live a normal life without bothering others you are delusional.
Lets hope some Heroin addicts move into your neighborhoods just so we can see how quickly your attitudes will change. Just give them some of your money for drugs(pennies on the dollar right) then ask them nicely not to rip the console of your car out when they are high or not let their drug protecting pitbull loose in your yard where it will try to rip your childs face off. We will see how much you like looking out your windows every time you hear people in your yard that shouldnt be there. Drug supporters..so naive.

 

Heroin is a horrible drug that people should not ideally have access to, but the current approach of sending someone to jail for using heroin does not help reduce the number of addictions in the slightest. Use of heroin should be decriminalized, but not legalized. Free programs should be available for addicts to help end their addiction - I know that many people would LOVE to end their addiction and would take the opportunity gratefully.

 

psssst.......nice strawman argument. I never said it wasnt. Alcoholics are pieces of s^&* too! I put one in jail as a juror when he killed a 7 yr old on his bicycle after his third offense. Pssssstt......the child would still be alive if it werent for the liberal POSs who let the guy off the three times before.

 

You didn't answer my question. You are aware that as things stand you are paying, right? You pay for all the law enforcement and all the bells and whistles that make up the DEA. So I'll re-ask the question: if, hypothetically, it were possible to pay, say, 10% of the amount you currently pay each year to fund the DEA and it would reduce many of the social problems you mentioned, would you still want to pay more for less?

 

I of course want to pay less. But you argument is faulted thats why its hypothetical. Your argument assumes giving free drugs and rehab programs to heroin addicts will work. I am telling you with first hand knowledge it will not work. You are with 100% certainty going to make a bad problem a effing nightmare.
Also, you pay for the law enforcement at the same rate no matter if there is crime or not. They dont hire more detectives if there is more drug crime contrary to liberal beliefs. From the detectives mouths in my case they were not going to investigate my case as they only have enough staff to focus on violent crimes first. There is no de-staffing of police because you want to give out free drugs. And you didnt answer my question, if you feel so strongly about it why dont you pay for it? and why dont you bring them to your neighborhood and help them out? According to you lefties these drugs cost pennies. So why dont you reach into your own pocket and pay for your own ideology as well as the results of that ideology. I can walk next door right now and give them your address. They will show up too. As they are addicts they will do anything for a fix and do anything when they are high. So lets see if you agree? If your philosophy is correct then you should have no problem contacting these heroin addicts to get them free drugs and place to stay in your neighborhood. They will come. Trust me they will show up if I tell them. Then all of us will be happy. I wont have them next door and you will feel good about helping them out, keeping them high if they want or on rehab if they want all at your expense. Its a win win. So if you agree, I can make arrangements to get them your contact information to help them.
Im guessing this is where your ideology breaks down. When you have to pay or you have to suffer the consequence of your ideology.

 

Judges and jury. They certainly werent conservative now were they? If it walks like a duck quacks like a duck and eats like a duck I dont need a link to tell me its a duck even if the duck says it isnt a duck.
Secondly I will get you the link if you tell me where to find the links to every single jury trial, jurors and judges who sat on the cases in Massachusetts. That would be fantastic for me to have at my disposal for this very reason.
Can you post a link of where this link is? I didnt even know this existed. Awesome!

 

Do you honestly believe that a single person handing out drugs bears any resemblance whatsoever to the changes I proposed? Either you didn't bother to read what I wrote or (and this is unlikely because it's pretty simple) it just went over your head.

Either way we can stop this back and forth. You don't want a conversation, obviously. Odd that you'd choose a discussion forum to demonstrate this.

 

Yeah really simple. I asked you to back up your own philosophy and you didnt. Certainly one person (you) in this instance could solve the problem in my neighborhood. You can have them come to you. Interesting you didnt like that idea.

 

You didn't ask me to back up the idea. You asked me why I don't just start handing out free drugs, something which has nothing to do with the way things are set up in Portugal. And then you started to lecture me about how policing works, although I'm not sure how the DEA would continue to exist if it were shut down. Do law enforcement officials on whatever planet you're from continue to work the job if their entire organization has been shut down and the paychecks stopped? That's not how it works here, FYI.

So really what you did was toss back a simplistic caricature of the Portugese system.

That isn't my idea. It's your idea. I'm not proposing handing out drugs willy-nilly. Why is it interesting to you that I dislike an idea that I didn't propose, and that you made up as an example of something that obviously won't work? Don't expect me to defend something you made up. Which is what you seem to have done: made up my proposal.

And now you find fault with it. Can you explain how this is a conversation? I was just suggesting that there are avenues which seem like they work better than ours does. Things we've never even considered here because they sound kind of crazy. And what do you do when I give a brief rundown of a couple? You invent your own ones and then fault me for not implementing them. That's really obnoxious. Are you being obnoxious on purpose?

Are you aware of how things have been going in Portugal? Have you ever heard of Portugal?

 

For anybody who is actually interested in what they're doing in Portugal, here is a good rundown of the policy changes and their effect 5 years on.

Scientific American April 2009

Even FOX News picked up on the story.

 

There was really no need for the thread to go this way.

This should be something that unites us all, rather than be a petty reason to argue.

 

Not really. I'm fine with legalizing marijuana. But all drugs should not be put under the same umbrella. If people want to do crack or heroin or meth, they can move to Portugal. It's also important to acknowledge the role that culture plays in the use of certain drugs. Which is why a "one cure fits all" approach is not likely to work. We have a rampant drug culture in America that glorifies use and abuse along with street crime and violence. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that Portugal doesn't have the same flourishing hip hop and rock scenes that America does. This is an important variable.

 

Totally disagree. There are a lot of people who simply will not try drugs because they are illegal.

 

pick your poison, Bush was a drunk, even convicted of drunk driving... time to end the war on drugs