How can someone be 'born gay'?

Discussion in 'Gay & Lesbian Rights' started by SpaceCricket79, Jul 3, 2013.

  1. SpaceCricket79

    SpaceCricket79 New Member Past Donor

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    Sexuality doesn't fully develop until adolescence, so when I hear stories of people saying they "knew they were gay" from the day they were born, I take this with a grain of salt.

    I think if anything environment might play a stronger role in determining one's sexuality than genetics alone. I've heard stories of women who were molested as a girl, or had a bad experience with a relationship at a young age, claiming this 'turned them' into a lesbian, for example.
     
  2. DevilMay

    DevilMay Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's generally accepted that people and animals must be born with some pre-disposal to heterosexuality relative to their gender, else the animals that survive purely on instinct would have simply died-out.

    So we more or less know that one type of sexuality is in-born. My argument is this: if women are MOSTLY born attracted to males, and males are born MOSTLY attracted to females, is it not possible that one could receive the other gender's sexual orientation, via mistake or perhaps something more purposeful (to head-off overpopulation?)?

    That's not to say environment can't play a role or it can't be "altered" to some degree, but I suspect that given my own experience and the way my sexual orientation has unfolded growing up at the same time as my male contemporaries - but towards males instead of females and with absolutely no HINT of any natural attraction to the opposite-sex despite it being an almost unavoidable, second-nature to 95% of boys - I had to have started with a natural disposition towards males.

    In my youth (15/16) I also tried to "convert" myself through lesbian pornography. For over a year I tried to get off to it, to absolutely no avail.

    My experience is my own and I know it's not everyone else's, but I guarantee if you were me, you'd think the same.

    Here's a question for you though: could you abandon your heterosexual urges and completely embrace homosexual attraction?
     
  3. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    so is your hypothesis that gay females in some shape or form have some male in them? That might be an enzyme, chromosome whatever? If that is the case, then this "gay gene" should be able to be detected

    it is an interesting hypothesis. If there is this "gay gene", then perhaps it would also be treatable?
     
  4. Dr House

    Dr House New Member

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    Secondary sexual characteristics are genetic, so it's not such a stretch to assume sexual attraction is as well. It might be a negative mutation or some mechanism against over-reproduction or something.

    Regardless that we know of so far, there isn't a way to cure homosexuality.
     
  5. Karma Mechanic

    Karma Mechanic Well-Known Member

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    Your brain doesn't fully develop until adolescence but you can think at birth. Take all the salt you want but while you are doing it you should really read some science on the topic, because frankly you have no idea what you are talking about.
     
  6. SpaceCricket79

    SpaceCricket79 New Member Past Donor

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    Probably not, but I'm thinking that things that go on during or prior to puberty might play a role in determining sexuality.

    For example, it's documented that people who are molested as a kid are more likely to become pedophiles as adults - not that I'm comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, but if being molested influenced their attraction to children, then I'm thinking that events that occur during childhood could influence a person's same sex attraction.
     
  7. Pregnar Kraps

    Pregnar Kraps New Member Past Donor

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    My deceased older sister always knew she preferred romantic situations with other females even as we were young kids she knew.
     
  8. Karma Mechanic

    Karma Mechanic Well-Known Member

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    there is nothing to treat....but I am sure you would convert left handed children and try to change green eyes to brown if someone told you it was evil.
     
  9. Karma Mechanic

    Karma Mechanic Well-Known Member

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    No that is exactly what you are doing. But the idea of pedophilia in the situation you are talking about is more about power and not sexual attraction. The power over the children is the issue that drives them. Again....read you will be enlightened.
     
  10. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    that's an interesting assertion and try to keep up please. The poster I quoted posed an interesting hypothesis almost as if there is a "gay gene".

    I then went on to say that's interesting and if there is, then perhaps it can be discovered and then, treatment offered. Just imagine, if something really is wired differently or there's a different chromosome then there would be actual proof that being gay is more than who you diddle. Until then, it's only about diddling.

    And then, if science was able to identify this "gay gene" then they could probably treat it as well. Just imagine if science was able to identify what makes people want to be gay. That would then make it possible to actually test anyone who claims to be gay and is demanding affirmative action because of it. It could also offer treatment to those who wanted to be heterosexual.

    It is an interesting hypothesis.
     
  11. migueldarican

    migueldarican New Member

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    I thought conservative Christians were against genetic engineering...
     
  12. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand the snark. If what you mean is that if there is a "gay gene" that science discovers, then perhaps it could be treatable. If what you mean is that treating an illness is some form of genetic engineering then so be it. But, if it is discovered, I would never ever support mandatory treatment. If someone is happy being gay then let them alone.
     
  13. Come Home America

    Come Home America New Member

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    There is nothing to "treat" about any theoretical "gay gene". It is not a disease. Unlike ignorance and bigotry.
     
  14. Perriquine

    Perriquine On hiatus Past Donor

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    So you didn't know you were straight until you hit adolescence? Had no inkling whatsoever that you liked the opposite sex?

    BS.
     
  15. SpaceCricket79

    SpaceCricket79 New Member Past Donor

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    I did recall 'liking girls' but at age 5 I didn't even understand 'sex' or 'sexuality'. The only time I really started feeling like I liked girls was the onset of puberty.
     
  16. Perriquine

    Perriquine On hiatus Past Donor

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    For all that we do know, there's a ton that we don't, especially about the human brain. What we have are theories, but no conclusive answers.

    However, the lack of conclusive proof for one theory doesn't prove another, such as the one that same-sex orientation is more influenced by environmental factors than biological factors.

    The thread starts us off with the premise that 'sexuality' isn't full developed until adolescence, but no evidence whatsoever is provided to support that assertion.

    But if we're going to honestly look for an answer, we have to consider all the possibilities and eliminate those that don't fit.

    1) Orientation as a result of "imprinting" through molestation (part of a conspiracy theory of the poster that shall not be named): Easy to dismiss, since there are plenty of gay people who weren't ever molested.

    2) "Something in the environment": To vague to bother addressing. We need to know what the "something" is before we can even begin to evaluate the claim.

    If we want to know how orientation arises, we'll most likely need to discover more about how the brain works, and endeavor to discover how the working of the brain differs between straight people and gay people, as well as consider a myriad of possible influences on the development of the brain specific to sexuality. That includes things like the interaction between a developing fetus and hormones, contaminants, etc.

    We know that gay people come from all socio-economic quarters, from religious families and non-religious families, from conservative homes and liberal homes, and just about every other factor under the sun you can dream up. We haven't found a single shared environmental factor that all gay people have in common, any more than we've found a "gay gene". There's a lot of BS floating around about things that are supposed to making a person turn out gay, but BS is BS. Hypotheses are not proof. Long debunked theories remain long debunked theories, no matter how many times some judgmental bigot repeats them.

    The bottom line remains that we just don't know yet. Maybe we never will. And why does it mattter? How we treat people and affect the direction in which they're headed is far more important than how they got to where they are.
     
  17. Perriquine

    Perriquine On hiatus Past Donor

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    Well, I knew I liked boys (feeling emotionally connected to them, wanting to be close to them) well before I even knew that boys and girls differed in their anatomy, and long before I developed any interest in sexual behavior. I could even name names of several boys I liked / had crushes on in the period between 1st to 4th grade in school, though it wouldn't be appropriate to do so here.

    So I find it really strange (and not exactly believable) when some straight person (in the course of arguing against homosexuality) tells me they didn't know they liked the opposite sex until puberty. Either gay people really are VERY different from straight people in the timing of orientation asserting its influence, or there are a lot more bisexuals than will admit it, or some people are just full of it. And I know I'm not one of the last, regardless of who chooses to think I'm a liar.
     
  18. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    The cause of homosexuality is not even settled in scientific community, so how can you expect to solve it on some forum? Genetic, hormonal and social factors are all possible explanations, with a combination of them likely.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

    Obviously they mean that they knew they were gay since their earliest memories of sexual feelings. That can happen well before adolescence, or even puberty, children are not asexual.
     
  19. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    I have known that my child is a heterosexual from about age 5 or 6. Often it is really obvious.

    I was never attracted to men, and even before puberty would sneak glances at my dad's Playboy magazine.

    How can someone be born 'gay'? The same way someone can be born left handed.

    Like I said in another thread- I think the question is immaterial- I no more consider it relevant than I do whether someone is born left handed or right handed. But with one exception, every homosexual I have known has told me that they knew from before puberty that they were not attracted to the other gender.

    The one exception to that is one woman I knew who was raped as a young teen. I think she made a conscious choice because the thought of being with a man just revolted her after that, more so than that she suddenly was attracted to men.
     
  20. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    perhaps not for you and that's fine and would be a personal choice much like those who don't want to quit smoking, or biting their fingernails etc. The hypothetical was put forth about an actual medical condition and I simply used the term "gay gene" .

    So, just imagine if a "gay gene" is discovered. It would vindicate folks like you who insist that being gay is more than who you diddle and would silence folks like me who know that is the only real difference that we can see. As the govt forces more affirmative action type rules for gay folk, the rest of us have no way to prove that you are deserving of those benefits or usurpation of our rights as we become subservient to homosexuals. If the gay gene could be identified through a simple lab test, then it could be on your drivers license or something thus serving as proff that we should hire you ahead of more qualified candidates etc.

    But, on the flip side, once a gene is discovered, science could then research how to modify it for those who want to convert.

    It's all hypothetical here and no need for panties getting into a wad. Right now, who you diddle is the only difference. If a "gay gene" were discovered, then it would serve as proof that gays are a different gender and thus deserving of affirmative actions they seek
     
  21. OleBoozer

    OleBoozer New Member

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    After we fix all those gay genes, we could begin work on fixing the religious gene so people can think rationally.
     
  22. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    religion is a belief, a leap of faith. For some, it is that faith which helps them get through trying times.

    From what I can see, a religious person can engage in gay sex. Some Catholic priests showed us that you can be religious and engage in gay sex. In fact, they also showed us that a religious person can be a gay pedophile, again, the priests showed us that. Although, my God frowns upon what they did, but like what you or the guy down the street thinks being gay is, the same can be said about interpretations of being religious.

    You raise an interesting point. If you look at the Jihadists, you might think them as doing the work of God while others think them to be terrorists. Also, can one be religious without actually "practicing religion"? How can you claim to be religious? The same with being gay. Are you really gay if you don't diddle the same sex? How can you claim to be gay if you've never done the gay activity?

    There are many interpretations and who knows what is right or wrong. The heterophobes in this subsection believe themselves to be the authority because of what they "believe"
     
  23. Karma Mechanic

    Karma Mechanic Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry you continue to struggle with your bisexuality so can't think straight but the bottom line is that sexuality exists even when sex doesn't. I am not having sex right now but I am still sexual. Who I am attracted to, what I find sexually exciting, and how that influences my decisions is part of how I am not mutable. that is fact. But you are looking to "treat" it but the question is why? The only reason people want to be something they are not is bigotry. And it fails every time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Liking girls is part of sexuality...OMG please stop writing until you understand the topic.
     
  24. OleBoozer

    OleBoozer New Member

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    No I'm serious, we're closer to finding the god gene than we are the gay gene actually....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_gene

    So, while we can continue searching for the gay gene we can fix those afflicted with the god gene and correct their propensity to live in delusion instead of thinking rationally...by then it will become obvious to all that the gay gene doesn't need fixing at all eh?
     
  25. Phil Osoraptor

    Phil Osoraptor New Member

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    It's possible to be born gay and find out later during puberty just as it is possible to be born left handed and find out later when you learn to write.

    I'm not sure how much environment plays into it.

    If someone is born right handed and we constantly put things closer to their left hand, will it turn them left handed?
     

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