I incline to that which can be evidenced and proven, rather than blind belief in something which cannot. This explains why no religion appeals to me, and I see them all as cults, which is really what they are. I also have no blind belief in what is collectively called the "supernatural". Again, applying the standard of logical, reason, evidence, and proof, there is simply nothing at all that can support concepts that are "supernatural". Thus it may seem somewhat strange that, of all things, I wish to use this thread to shine some light and insight into something which could be described as a "religion", is certainly cult like, yet is rarely spoken about today - Satanism. Let me make clear again, that there is no evidence for a supernatural entity called "Satan", just as there is equally no evidence to prove any of the other thousands of supernatural entities of legend. But that is not the point. It matters less if the concept or entity exists, and it matters far more if others believe that it does. Because by deluding yourself that it does, then you yourself breathe life into the legend. And since you will then inevitably surround yourself with a group of your peers, all who share the same blind belief, there is no critical thinking, and you validate each other. Thus, while the Hebrew god may not exist in the sense that it is a supernatural entity that can think, speak, see, and "do" things, it can exist in the minds of those that have either been indocrtinated into it, or whom benefit from it. And as we can see, esp if you are even vaguely familiar with either the OT or Talmud, because THEY had indoctrinated each other, many great horrors were carried out on the command or blessing of the god that is their own deluded creation. Pretty soon they build an entire belief and culture system entirely based around a made up god, and handily, one that is beyond all question or reproach. It then follows that actions and deeds we would find morally repugnant are not so TO THEM, indeed, they are an integral part of their ancient and self replicating delusions. We can apply this to Islam also. Precisely the same model, and again, it psychology allows one to do deeds that to any sane person would be seen as sick and twisted. Why? Because the person indoctrinated into the delusion can devolve the behaviour onto "what god wants". Which brings me to Satanism. There is a very good reason why I have taken some time to shed some light on this. The reason being that not enough is. When was the last time you ever heard anyone in the media discussing it, and it's presence and implications today, in a serious manner? After all, the media are never slow to give attention to (example), Scientology and it's practices and implications. Indeed, certain European nations like Belgium have gone as far as to ban them. So if we can put light on the major cults, and the little one's as well, it strikes me as rather odd that we no longer give ANY attention at all to the cult of what may be collectively called Satanism, and it's implications. Just as the Jew or the Muslim will behave in a manner, driven by his indoctrination and culture that's simply irrational and often downright bad, so too would the person whose delusion was Satan. Stands to reason that would be true. They would want to "please" their delusion, just as Muslims or Jews want to "please" their supernatural delusions. I know what your're thinking. "No one is a Satanist today"? Right? Is that true or is it merely that somehow no one seems to ever make any mention of it ever? Remember, that which is published is not "the reality", but merely the owner of that news corporation's narrative. Or perhaps you think that if it does exist, that people only engage in it in some sort of parody like way, like being a "Goth" or something. Is that true though? Can there be such a thing as "harmless Satanism", if in fact(and by all measures), Satan itself is meant to simply personify the opposite of good and natural? Was it "harmless" when (too late of course), it was revealed that not only was Jimmy Saville a child rapist, and possible child killer, but that he engaged in these acts as part of a full on Satanic ritual? Was it merely a "fashion" when it was revealed that during these ceremomies he would be joined by others, all of whom took the ceremony as seriously as any Muslim or Christian fundamentalist would take their ceremonies or culture? People of all religions believe they are personally empowered by their "god". That is why they defer to their "god", and that is why and how many deviant practices evolved in an effort to "appease" their made up god. And while their god may be a delusion, their blind belief and actions to appease it are not. Those are real. Do you see the dangers here? We may look back to times gone by and almost laugh at the way our ancestors hunted down Satanists, and put them to the sword. But were they really doing a wrong thing? Or were they doing a right thing, when you really think about it? There is no reason to think that the core practices of Satanists would have changed much, between now and then, therefore, the so called irrational hunting down of Satanists may have in actual fact been a perfectly legit purge. A name worth noting is this man - Anton LaVey. Satanism existed long before he came along, however, he remains a name worth looking into; Anton Szandor LaVey (born Howard Stanton Levey; April 11, 1930 October 29, 1997) was an American author, occultist, and musician. He was the founder of the Church of Satan as well as the author of The Satanic Bible *** Naturally, they would argue that the Satanic Bible is benign. It may even be written in such a way. But remember, in the pathology of "Satan", all anti virtues are virtues, therefore it would follow they would base all that they say on deceit (of you).
Modern “mainstream” Satanists don’t believe in an actual being that is Satan. But they admire the character and rebellious nature of Satan. And admittedly, Satan comes off a heck of a lot better than God in the Bible so I can understand the sentiment. The more theistic Satanism in which Satan is actually worshiped with animal sacrifices is mostly a thing of the movies. I doubt there is a thousand of them worldwide. I am an atheist but I don’t consider all religions cults. For a religion to be a cult, in my opinion, it has to take active measures to cut you off from the outside. If your religion or church pressures you not to associate with people outside your religion then I would consider that a cult.
The principle of what I am saying does make absolute sense, even if you factor out the entire "supernatural" part.
But do you know all of those things for sure, or is that merely your perception, based on limited experience? Besides, a virtue to Satan would be to lie and deceive, therefore, to make something appear seductive or benign, when it was anything but. You say that the sadistic type of Satanism is the stuff of movies, but are you sure? What of the example I gave? That was very serious and there was an absolute Satanic theme to it. Those present were even chanting "his" name, during these vile acts. That happened. In my country. And he was one of best known people in all media here.
The Bible states in several places that God is a liar and a deceiver so is there really any difference between Satan and God in that regard?
Maybe "Satan" and the OT "god" are really two concepts from the same minds that created the cults originally. Both, as you say, are all about acts of deception, genocide, child killing, etc, etc...
In the majority of the Old Testament the God character is really the Assyrian/Babylonian Emperors. There are very few references to the invisible sky/desert mountain deity. The main problem is that the Israelites/Hebrews/Jews worshiped anything and everything that they could imagine. They had to have been some of the most superstitious people of all time.
No, it doesn't. It makes some sense, and that sense is only if you look at it from the perspective you presented. It could and would make more sense if your claims about Satanism were true. And since you "incline to that which can be evidenced and proven, rather than blind belief in something which cannot" it stands to reason (mind you not absolutely) that your own personal conviction in this matter should be held under the same scrutiny. That is, until you provide evidence for your claims, you are engaged in the same practice that you are speaking against. And let me be clear, using your own understanding on "what matters": What you believe may not be true, but you put yourself at odds with yourself to make any case whatsoever when you assume that what you believe about something is of greater weight than what is real about that thing. In your case, you have put more authority in what you believe Satanism is than what it actually is. Your whole point is self-referential, which, I might disclose, makes you a practitioner of Satanism. You can remedy this partially by using sources about the subject rather than name-dropping and talking about systems that are unrelated (Islam, the Hebrew god, the media, Scientology, psychology, or the supernatural)
*If only people would read all of a thing* http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/370439/Jimmy-Savile-was-part-of-satanic-ring http://intellihub.com/2013/05/09/mainstream-media-created-climate-for-saviles-satanic-abuse/ Speaking about her experience on BCFM, Valerie Sinason the director of the London based Centre for Dissociative Studies, said that she has interviewed more than 500 victims of ritualistic abuse over the last 25 years. Dr Sinason made headlines earlier this year when she revealed that Savile had sexually abused two girls as part of a Satanic ritual. When asked for more details about the kind of abuse that Savile inflicted, Dr Sinason said: “Savile was not only abusing all children with or without disabilities, in group settings, in individual settings, in hospital settings, he was also invoking belief systems, doing rituals, making children believe that he had extra powers, and if they didn’t obey him they’d be punished in an afterlife”.
When asked if the abuse was part of a genuine religious ritual or merely theatrics to scare the children, she answered:... "When Satanists are abusers, there are extra things for example Aleister Crowley that can be used to frighten children more. But the use of cloaks, making spells, of making threats, threatening what will happen after death too, is something that they five different people that have spoken to me about Jimmy Savile all said hed been part of.... Dr Sinason and the victims of ritualistic abuse have been ridiculed by the media in particular Private Eye, stating it doesnt exists. I find it so disappointing, it was quiet a shock not just to me but to all the other people that work with ritual abuse survivors to have an intelligent, satirical paper take the strange view that no such thing could exist in the wake of the Kidwelly case which was a very successful prosecution in 2011 were four adults were convicted for the ritual abuse of vulnerable children, and were weve got lists of cases that have been successfully prosecuted, to say that nothing exists is creating the kind of climate that allows a Jimmy Savile to exist. http://intellihub.com/2013/05/09/mainstream-media-created-climate-for-saviles-satanic-abuse/
Well, in that all known arguments put forward by creationists to try to disprove ToE, geological time etc and show that thre really was a flood and a six day poof-creation are in fact falsehoods of one sort or another, and in that such "lyin' for jesus' is considered a great virtue by the fundamentlaist Would you say that they are Satanists, unknowing as they may be who it is they serve?
Satan represent evil. Jesus Christ represent all good. Luke 4:1 -13 3 The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.” 4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone.’” 5 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.” 8 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’[c]” 9 The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down from here. 10 For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you to guard you carefully; 11 they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’[d]” 12 Jesus answered, “It is said: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[e]” 13 When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time. Notice the things that Satan was offering not so much about Satan himself / herself but the stuff that is being offer they all sound nice, appealing and practical things wealth, power and good earthly life and Satan only ask that one must worship him / her very simple very easy. But what is not being reveal by Satan (mine line) is that one will only enjoy temporal earthly life how about eternal life? Cult: A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. Christianity respect and recognize freedom and free will, Christianity has always stood up against tyranny, authoritarianism, and evil.
The first three lines is absolutely how I would understand it. Let me illustrate a bit more. You will have seen "Passion of the Christ". Notice how "Satan" is represented as something almost female, but not quite. It's like taking something, making it appear normal, but it's not quite right. Same with the allegory of the baby that Satan was holding. Babies represent innocence, yet the baby turned around and look like an old man. Again, taking something natural and twisting it. You'll also notice that I left Christianity out as being cult like. With that said, it has totally and utterly lost it's way, esp in the US, over the past 50yrs or so.
See where it goes if you think about it. I dont believe in "satan' but if I did, i would be looking at those who spread lies in the name of god.
Too vague to be any use. - - - Updated - - - People kill people. Their delusion doesn't, the people do.
Suture Self, as the Dr. kit says. I said that the creationists / fundies always lie when the present arguments against science, tho they profess to be xtians bound to behave honourably to the best of their ability. They bring ridicule and shame to the Christian faith. does this sound like a follower of "jesus", or, "satan"?
As you have said, people are the ones that kill people. It is also people who will exploit and abuse Christianity in order to expand their evilness, Satan is very cunning, he / she can disguise itself to be a man, woman, child, snake or beast. There are several cult-Christians the thing is any cult-Christianity is not recognize by the main stream traditional Christian community.
In less than 70 years communism has killed almost 3,000,000 combine in USSR, Eastern Europe and China. Daniel Goldhagen argues that 20th century Communist regimes "have killed more people than any other regime type."[52] Other scholars in the fields of Communist studies and genocide studies, such as Steven Rosefielde, Benjamin Valentino, and R.J. Rummel, have come to similar conclusions.[2][26][53] Rosefielde states that it is possible the "Red Holocaust" killed more non-combatants than "Ha Shoah" and "Japan's Asian holocaust" combined, and "was at least as heinous, given the singularity of Hitler's genocide." Rosefielde also notes that "while it is fashionable to mitigate the Red Holocaust by observing that capitalism killed millions of colonials in the twentieth century, primarily through man-made famines, no inventory of such felonious negligent homicides comes close to the Red Holocaust total."[53] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes
Worshiping Satan may have started centuries ago with the pervasive power and the draconian repression by elements of the Catholic Church. There were groups that detested the church for this reason and started a movement to do everything the opposite of the chruch's teachings. The Black Mass was done in reverse with Satan (represented by the man-goat) presiding. It was more like an orgy. I think so-called 'Satanism' probably has its roots there.
Indeed. But once again, an abstract itself cannot kill. Yes, the ideology, in this case communism and boshevikism were brought to life, a great and often not taught enough evil was executed. Further, the "win" of WW2 merely destined all of E European to live under that tyranny for the next 50yrs, as well as it's spread further afield. But it takes people to not only conceive the ideology, and write the orders, but it takes people to carry them out. The fact about the "Communists" is that most were not ethnic Russians, least not it's founders and it's high command, it's first Gov were 75% non ethnic "Russian". They also had a burning hate of Christianity, which probably explains what I said about Communist having an inherent hate for the host people.
Without doing a "search", I seem to remember that there is no reference to a Passion Play before a thousand years ago when traveling players would go around Germanic areas preforming a Passion Play for the intent of creating a mob to pogrom the nearby Jewish settlement. It is no wonder to me that Mel Gibson resurrected the Passion Play in our time. He also has his own chapel where he hears the mass in the "correct", Latin. Considering the movie was Mel and the Play was created as a ploy to create a pogrom, an excuse to steal, 1,000 years ago - I can't see using it as a reference for anything other then Christianity at that time in that area or Europe. BTW, that area of Europe also tried and killed off a beautiful woman for being a witch. Beauty was guilt proven. Moi
