A return to slavery?

I want to ask some tough , but honest, questions here. Were blacks , and society as a whole, better off as slaves than they are today? I'm not suggesting we return to slavery or even saying I would like to, I'm merely asking questions.

First let's discuss how blacks were better off , then we'll discuss how society was better off.

First, let's talk about poverty.35% of blacks live in poverty in this nation, compared to 13% of whites.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/

That means that a black is 3X as likely to be homeless and or hungry or dependent on Uncle Sam for shelter and sustenance today where as when in slavery their own labor provided for their needs.

Next, let's discuss the unemployment rate. Blacks are historically TWICE as likely to be unemployed as whites (13.6%)

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...oyment-is-consistently-double-that-of-whites/

I think we can all agree that very few blacks were unemployed when slavery existed.

Now on to education.

I concede that an educated black was pretty unusual in the slavery era United States, but if we look at a few things such as

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d12/tables/dt12_008.asp

we see that black males are about 8% less likely to graduate HS and an ASTOUNDING 18% less likely to earn at least one college degree than their white counterparts the numbers are 85% and 18.5% respectively for blacks)

If you look at THIS study

http://nationsreportcard.gov/hsts_2009/race_gpa.asp?tab_id=tab2&subtab_id=Tab_1

you will see that blacks have lower GPAs than whites as well

If you look at this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#Test_scores

It will point you to a study that indicates that between 11-16% of blacks in the US have an IQ above 100 , the median US IQ., while 26-29% of whites are likely to .

Taken all together this indicates that slavery did not cause blacks to be less educated than they otherwise would be.

Now let's talk about incarceration.

http://www.bop.gov/news/quick.jsp

37% of inmates in BOP facilities come from a group that comprises of 13% of the population.

28.5% of black males in this country will spend time in prison some time in their lifetime

http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/Llgsfp.pdf

Now, obviously we don't have the information from back then, but it seems logical to conclude that 28.5% of blacks in the US were not in prison during the days of slavery.

. Let's just talk about murder here.

http://projects.wsj.com/murderdata/?mg=inert-wsj#view=all

Again, 13% of the population are committing just under 50% of the murders AND are around 40% of the victims. MOST of that is black on black. When blacks were slaves they certainly weren't killing or being killed as often.

Now let's talk about home stability

A black child is THREE times more likely to grow up in a single parent household than their white counterparts , fully 67% of black children in the US lives in a single parent house hold.

http://datacenter.kidscount.org/dat...867,133,38,35,18/10,168,9,12,1,13,185/432,431

VERY few , if ANY black children were raised in a situation where they had one parent and no one else to help raise them when blacks were slaves. It just didn't happen.

whew , I think that is enough to open a discussion for now, look forward to hearing your thoughts and opinions, but please if you are going to dispute my facts be prepared to counter with your own.

We'll discuss whether society is better off or not a little later

 

NO ONE has an opinion?

 

Too much information to study; too many assumptions made and too many questions posed. So I'll do what I usually do, ignore most of it, and just post what interests me. From the standpoint of both long term democratic and capitalistic health.

Regardless of how an enslaved group or population might feel about it, slavery is bad for the very principle of any democratic republic based on Enlightenment ideals. Not only would such a nation be denying itself of creative input from the enslaved class but being slave owners warps the nature of a society by coarsening its attitude toward all humanity in general.

Economically the health of a capitalistic system depends on the maximum amount of the population being able to achieve maximum productivity output for a maximum amount of time . . . all of the time. Slavery is economically contraindicated.

 

So, essentiallly you are saying that yes, blacks were better off as slaves but we as a society are not?

Then I ask you to please post any and all achievements you feel that black persons have contributed to the betterment of society and why you feel they wouldn't have if they had been slaves.

 

yes, blacks were must better off as slaves.

just as Jews were much better off as prisoners in Auschwitz.

see what I did?

 

yes completely comparable since I provided some factual data that at minimum suggests that blacks were better off as slaves and you provided NOTHING to back up your claim about Jews.

Try again.

 

No . . . I am saying that in regard to the ethical and economic health of a nation it's a non-issue whether or not a group would be better or worse off as slaves. That is an area for consideration under the issues of philosophy and religious morality.

The betterment of society is a tricky point, though. One person's estimation of betterment might be another person's definition of harmful. So simply consider the issues of Democratic Republic enlightenment and capitalistic economics as principles applying to all groups of humanity in general.

 

only a tyrant or a Fascist would argue that ANY people are better off as slaves than free men.

 

I'm just going to say......



Ironic.

 

What's ironic? Are you incapable of having a philosophical debate using known facts? Are you calling me a racist for doing so?

 

I think we should make an actual effort to improve the situation. For example, perhaps blacks should be given a free college education if they finish high school, which is already free. I don't like paying taxes any more than the next guy, but that would probably be a very good investment. Indians get reparations, and they deserve it IMO. Why shouldn't blacks?

 

I'm with you. Give every former slave a million dollars and pretend like that will change the stats I posted above

 

You will have to admit that a gift of one million dollars is both quantitatively and qualitatively different than a free education, which I'm reasonably certain will significantly change the statistics you posted above.

 

They're barely graduating high school. How does free college fix that?

 

That would probably give some blacks an incentive to finish high school.

 

How about "finish high school or be a slave?" That would surely motivate them to finish school?

 

Enslaved Blacks were generally better off than the blacks of today just like a monkey at a good zoo is better off than those in the wild.
High quality livestock-pets are a huge investment and the industry to maintain them is enormous. The best in food, medical care, grooming, housing etc. is proof of this. Genetically inferior specimens were removed from the herd and superior specimens received extra special care.Breeding was controlled. Training was task specific and geared toward both mental and physical abilities.
Once released into the wild the law of the jungle takes over, diseases run wild, inferior specimens intermix >>>profanity filter bypass<<< Google " Black Friday " and select news or videos for evidence of my assessment..

 

That would be an equal opportunity.

 

The notion of ownership of people by other people for their own good is enough to make anyone, left or right, with a shred of morality, puke in disgust.

I am shocked that another human being would propose anything as utterly ridiculous, as utterly evil, and as intellectually filthy as owning humans for any reason.

 

The racism of the OP sickens me and should sicken all people who value freedom and human dignity.

 

ronstar, youre going up in my opinion for what its worth. we almost see eye to eye but im sure there is one or two things we could easily antagonize eachother with..pity.

 

No.

really doesn't need any more discussion than that.

 

It sickens me, but it's not surprising.

It has become the norm since Obama was elected in 2008. Far right wing conservatives will blame Obama of course, but we all know the truth.

 

I suggest the OP become a slave for a year, and then re-address this thread.

 

I proposed nothing sir. I merely suggested that blacks were better of when they were slaves. My facts support that notion.

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Pointing out facts is NOT racism Ron.