Walmart pay.

LMAO! Need a definition of what extort means? HINT: Collective bargaining is not extort.

 

Thanks, but I can't take credit for it. I saw it somewhere else and posted it here since it seemed most appropriate.

 

At my age I hire an electrician, preferably a German, American Union electricians don't know how to do it right

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Collective bargaining? More like collective bullying!

 

As if companies don't engage in union busting as a way to divide and individually bully workers into submission. One worker cannot stand against a corporation.

 

Given an opportunity I will gladly work to "bust" unions. Only 12% of our workforce is still union, and their elitist positions as high paid bullies is obvious to the rest of the people having to pay the obscene prices for the goods they produce. Unions did good things 60 and 70 years ago. Now the government with its rules and regulations has taken over the unions "good" work and unions are no longer needed.

Workers do not have to "stand" against a corporation, the government does his work for him.

 

Right wing 'strategies' for improving the worker's lot amount to tiptoeing around the capitalists and submitting to whatever aweful economic conditions they wish to contort us into accepting. As if we will be treated nicer if we accept all they ask of us.

But capitalists do not exploit us because they hate us, they exploit us to gain the best possible advantage over competitors. They respond only according to cost-benifit analysis. For them raising wages is better than facing an indefinite withdrawal of labour.

 

The only issue with unions is their beurocracy. I support wildcat unions.

 

What right wingers are you talking about?

Capitalists do not exploit as much as you would like to claim they do. The facts are, capitalism is what has lifted the western world to such economic prosperity the world has never seen before. Union labor is but 12% of our total force. They are the elitist worker group engaged in producing goods and services much of the rest of the labor force cannot afford.

When unions were created in the US there was a need to address wages and work place conditions. Most of that has transitioned to the government such that unions are a thorn in the side of American consumers. The old definition of capital, that it is the over production of labor, has been proved to be an archaic way of thinking. Capital as entrepreneurial investment is what made the western world prosperous, not labor. The fact that both capital and labor is necessary to a prosperous economy is obvious but it is also obvious that labor leadership of the economy is counter productive to prosperity.

 

The best solution to work place problems is to look for a different job leaving any unfair employer in the lurch. That it seldom happens is a testament to what I have been saying about the passe' labor movement transferring its value to the Government. That is true in any mature economy.

I can recognize the need for unions in developing economies, until such time that the labor evolutions occur which makes the unions obsolete.

 

ROFL!! AWESOME! You pegged it!!

 

Yet we are rapidly becoming one of the most important auto manufacturing states in the country.

BTW, poverty is measured IAW an arbitrary poverty line. A person in Alabama can earn at the poverty line and still live a better standard of living than a person in NYC making $40K.

 

Yeah, I hear those Alabama poverty cases have cardboard boxes with wheels on them. Ah, that rainbow stew ya have thar!!!

 

But the opposing view is: A Liberal complains about worker's wages at Walmart, then goes to Walmart instead of Target to buy goods because Walmart is cheaper.

Do as I say, not as I just did.

Walmart exists because people go there. Yes. Liberals too. Shhhh.

 

...and it exists because people are largely ignorant, and could care less where their products come from, what kid is forced to make them, or whose job it is they kill. This is true. Walmart happily takes advantage of it, for profit. That's also true. So, the moral (yuk yuk, like that really matters), of the story is "Long as I'm good, F everybody else", and hence, our present state of society and it's impending collapse.

 

Cardboard boxes indeed! We are now manufacturing Mercedes luxury SUVs. You obviously don't know what you are talking about so pardon me if I at you.

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The only society collapsing is that populated by bitter corporate haters. The rest of us who understand reality are and will do just fine.

 

Maybe, just shows that NY has acheived a higher standard of living than cardbox dwellers in Alabama with a skate board in state ranking of #47 poverty rates, and NY isn't much better at #38.

 

When wages are too low, either because corporations are willing to pay off politicians to subsidize low wage workers with the tax dollars of better paid workers or when they are willing to outsource and create horrible working and living conditions, we all suffer. Why? Because artificially low wages encourages the use of human labor when developing the technology to implement machine labor would be otherwise more profitable.

 

LMAO! I obviously do know what I am talking about and provided you with links showing you don't know what you are talking about.

And by the way, those Mercedes luxury SUVs made by cardboard box dwellers,.......it is New Yorkers who can afford to buy them on their high wages!!! LMAO!!!

 

It reminds me of volunterrism for schools, when voters refuse to spend what is needed. It gives the false impression that the budgeted money is enough, and overlooks the fact that if volunteers do not show up the entire system flounders.

 

When a radical leftist says capitalists are exploitative of workers we do not mean they treat us unfairly, whatever that would mean. We mean the relationship between the capitalist and worker is inherently unequal and exploitative. Workers are only workers because they exist to be exploited.

 

Prolific eh? yeah they are jobs (most likely paying $15 per hour) oh and yeah, they aren't exactly high tech jobs now are they?

Try telling the truth; its not a requirement in the state of Georgia that work done in a private individual's home be done by a union electrician; rather you have to have the work done by a certified electrican whether he be union or non-union. That's to ensure you don't end up burning your house down; the non-union insurance companies pushed that legislation through years ago. Why? because "homeowners" did a lot of the work on their own and had no idea what they were doing and many people would die in fires caused by faulty wiring by these so-called 'know-it-all' home owners.

You may not like the terms and conditions of employment spelled out in the labor agreement, but that is the fault of whoever on the military's side drafted the language and let it be included in the final proposal. Next time pay more attention to the details of a proposed labor agreement and don't blame it on the union because after signing the deal you suddenly don't like what is contained in it. The union is only going by what both parties agreed to.

The labor safety laws you proudly proclaim as the cure-all in essence were designed not to work; the Bush administration decimated OSHA by cutting their funding to enforce the laws; hence only the most agregious violations (death) get any attention at all. OSHA is simply overwhelmed at this point and its nothing but an empty bag for all but the worst vioations. You may not agree with this, but people have a right to enjoy basic rights in the work place. Union's provide this; just that so many people either don't know what their rights should be or are afraid of retaliation if they organize or even discuss unionization.

 

Exactly. Almost the same mentality is used in the food service 'business'. Unless, we, the patrons, pay the servers ourselves, prices will explode.

 

The way the "standard of living" is measured tends not be rational to a rural society. You really ought to check out how they make those determinations. For example, I live in a 2,300 sq foot 4 br 3 bath house. Am equivalent sized space in Manhattan would cost in a year what I paid for the entire house price, and I am on the ground floor with about 3/4 acre of nice wooded land around me. I can eat a steak and lobster dinner our with my wife for less than $40, and my high speed internet and satellite TV is as good as anywhere. I have access to cable broadband and DSL broadband. And I live on less than $2,000 a month. I don't have opera or the symphony but it is available less than 100 miles away and I also don't have access t a major league sports team; but I have had them and didn't ever choose to attend. IOW, you can take hour "high standard of living" and I'll be happy with mine. Saturday morning one of my son's will pick me up at about 5am, and we will go to the adjacent federal reserve and hunt for deer and wild hogs, which as far as I am concerned trumps all of the luxuries which are more common in NY.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living

Standard of living refers to the level of wealth, comfort, material goods and necessities available to a certain socioeconomic class in a certain geographic area. The standard of living includes factors such as income, quality and availability of employment, class disparity, poverty rate, quality and affordability of housing, hours of work required to purchase necessities, gross domestic product, inflation rate, number of holiday days per year, affordable (or free) access to quality healthcare, quality and availability of education, life expectancy, incidence of disease, cost of goods and services, infrastructure, national economic growth, economic and political and stability, political and religious freedom, environmental quality, climate and safety. The standard of living is closely related to quality of life.[1]

Standard of living is generally measured by standards such as real (i.e. inflation adjusted) income per person and poverty rate. Other measures such as access and quality of health care, income growth inequality, Disposable Energy (people's disposable income's ability to buy energy) and educational standards are also used. Examples are access to certain goods (such as number of refrigerators per 1000 people), or measures of health such as life expectancy. It is the ease by which people living in a time or place are able to satisfy their needs and/or wants.[citation needed]

The idea of a 'standard' may be contrasted with the quality of life, which takes into account not only the material standard of living, but also other more intangible aspects that make up human life, such as leisure, safety, cultural resources, social life, physical health, environmental quality issues, etc. More complex means of measuring well-being must be employed to make such judgements, and these are very often political, thus controversial. Even between two nations or societies that have similar material standards of living, quality of life factors may in fact make one of these places more attractive to a given individual or group.​

 

Like it or not, what I said is factual. In addition, your estimate of the auto/travel industry wages are half what they really are. I think it would be a good idea that you stick with your union job, if you just happen to be one of the 12% left.

In so far as the electricians union, I did not say I wired my own home such that it may burn down. I said I changed the entrance, installed the breaker boxes and THEN CALLED FOR AN INSPECTION, which is all that is required in GA. (at the time 58 years ago). I also stated that I was an electronics technician which is a heck of a lot more versed than an electrician. At the time I was teaching repair of automatic pilot and navigation equipment at Fort Gordon, Ga. So you can keep your self righteous attitude.

 

Oh is that so? can you provide documentation as to what the wages actually are then?

And?? what about the request from the power company for the receipt from the so-called union electrician? There is a lot of missing pieces from the "story".

Electronics technician? So you handled low DC voltage around 24 volts? Change out a few caps in the navigation equipment? or a neon bulb?

Come on pal, QTIP. Get your facts straight.