putin is making a big mistake

i've been listening to streaming videos of former ambassador mcfaul speaking about ukraine and russia

mcfaul says we aren't going to stop putin if he wants to send troops in

but we have plenty of tools in our arsenal, sanction can hurt russia, like they hurt iran years ago

bobby ghosh (time magazine world editor) says he thinks mcfaul is right and putin is taking a big gamble

"Putin has taken an enormous gamble, arguably the biggest of his career. Ukrane is now his problem and a very large problem it is, with its internal strife and ruined finances" - Time Magazine


this video has mccain, mcfaul, clinton and ghosh:

Will Crimea be absorbed by Russia?

at 4:05 ghosh says, what could we have done? knowing what putin was going to do, there were not a whole lot of options available to president obama, if europe wasn't able to come up with a plan, what could the united states have done

this leads to my question,

what should the united states have done about ukraine?

 

The Ukraine is an example of why we need to occupy every country in the world. Occupying foreign countries is the only way to make sure they stay free!


Seriously though theres nothing we could do nor should have done. It would be like if Mexico decided they wanted to become more Fussian. Even if Russia supported them they couldnt defend them if we decided to act. All they could do is sit back and complain as well as leverage non-military punishments. Sucks for the Ukraine but there is nothing we could do.

Europe on the other hand is right there, and they could act but they wont. A confrontation with the Russians would be a horrible idea, but occupying the Ukrainian mainland beforr Putin pushes through the Crimea would send a message. It would also up tensions massively and could lead to a third world war.

 

in the video below, there are several things mentioned that we can and are doing

economic sanctions, freezing assets, kicking russia out of the g8, restricting travel of high profile russians and such

‘Not too late’ for Ukraine negotiations

3:03 - "over time , we can isolate russia economically and that will weaken russia as a global power"

 

Nothing more than has already been done. The best plan of US for the Ukraine is a bloody chaos between EU and Russia preventing the main economic competitor of US to develop its production (russian gas) and to invest into anti-terror activities. Main aim is a today's Afghanistan between Russia and EU. So far eveything goes according to the plan. Once eastern Ukraine and western Ukraine starts bloody fights (which have already started) it's only a mater of time that serious terrorist bands appear. To get to its aims US should continue to support present government, not to support them economically and to sharpen every existing problem there.
The other way of activities is preventing Russia or EU to clean up the mess in Kiev before this plague spreads over the whole Ukraine. There should be pointless meetings, threats, lod but empty interviews and a lot of red lines which would pressurize all the sides with the sanctions from US.

Ah. You mean what could US do to prevent the blood and to spread democracy in the Ukraine?
1. To stop propaganda ober its own people about 'russian agression' and with the ukrainians that US will support any fascist band if they are willing to go to war with russians.
2. To insist on absolutely lawful execution of the agreement between Yanukovich and opposition and not to act like current people are 1% legitimate.
3. At best to stop sponsoring non-governmental organisation (foreign agents) all over the world and to conduct an open investigation into possible involvance of US officials into war crimes all over the world.

 

haven't we done that already?

 

Of course not. In the position of investigator I would start with the department of state and check why the money of american taxpayers go to information support of the activity of such groups as Al Kayeda in Syria and fascistic Pravy sector in Ukraine.

 

Putin outwitted Obama and the EU. Crimea has voted unanimously to secede. We don't have any more business there except blocking Putin from taking the rest. Goodbye crimea. Obama and Co should know when they have lost and bow out gracefully. Economic sanctions can hurt us as much as it hurts them.

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Or why we sent aid to putin's fascist Russia. He is a fascist economically after all.

 

sod that, Ukraine not even in EU - why should the Euros mess their state up and butt their noses in , no way - let nature take its course

 

Sorry, but which aid are you talking about? You speak about foreign agents that tried to do in Moscow the same that happened in the Ukraine?
I remember help from americans in the 90s. But it was generously repaid by pro-american traitors in power. Although I remember about it and am grateful to americans for their poultry that I was still buying. (selling the aid was a know-how of powers those days). I am also grateful to the US for their program of cultural exchange. I received some practice in English and bought my first computer for the money that I worked in one of the summer camps. But in times of Putin I haven't seen anything that is possible to call a US aid. Only attacks and russophobia.

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Sorry, but which aid are you talking about? You speak about foreign agents that tried to do in Moscow the same that happened in the Ukraine?
I remember help from americans in the 90s. But it was generously repaid by pro-american traitors in power. Although I remember about it and am grateful to americans for their poultry that I was still buying. (selling the aid was a know-how of powers those days). I am also grateful to the US for their program of cultural exchange. I received some practice in English and bought my first computer for the money that I worked in one of the summer camps. But in times of Putin I haven't seen anything that is possible to call a US aid. Only attacks and russophobia.

 

Sanctions won't work unless the Europeans are on board, and so far they're not, and it's highly doubtful they will be.

Next, our trade with Russia is a drop in the bucket, compared to trade between Russia and the EU, so is sanctions really going to hurt Putin and Russia? Not really.

 

how do you figure that?

because the people in ukraine need help

do you think the eu is on put in's side? they aren't

as the video say, most russians are against invading the ukraine

what a joke, russia is already hurting financially

 

Ya, no they're not. But keep making (*)(*)(*)(*) up to back your silly assertion.

 

then why are they behind brazil and japan in gdp?

 

And this has absolutely nothing to do with Putin's actions in the Ukraine. You wanna try again?

 

it shows how russia is in financial trouble, like i said


Ukraine financial fall-out exposes Russia's economic weakness

(Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin's decision to raise the stakes in Ukraine could cause lasting damage to Russia's own economy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/03/us-urkaine-crisis-russia-economy-analysi-idUSBREA221D020140303

 

Russia's gdp was behind Japan and Brazil before the Ukraine crisis. Now do you see how little sense this makes for you to bring this up?

Next, the EU gets most of their energy supply from Russia, and they're not going to endanger their own economies by putting sanctions on Russia. You have no clue what you're talking about.

 

that's right, they've been in financial trouble for some time

the thing in ukraine is making it worse, as the article shows


While attention initially focused on Russia's direct economic and business interests in Ukraine, it is now shifting towards the broader question of Russia's economic ties with the West and how disrupting them threatens to derail a struggling economy that is already near stagnation.

It hasn't taken long for Russian financial markets to react to developments at the weekend, when Putin won parliamentary approval for military action in Ukraine as Russian forces consolidated control over Crimea, raising the prospect of a real war with Ukraine and a new Cold War with the West.

Moscow share price indexes plunged on Monday by over 10 percent, while the central bank has dramatically raised interest rates and spent an estimated $10 billion in reserves to defend the rouble after it hit a record low.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/03/us-urkaine-crisis-russia-economy-analysi-idUSBREA221D020140303

 

Our banks have large exposure to them. We can seize a pittance of the assets they can. Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan would both be up for major hits. They own politicians. That is the kind of hurt they can understand. Any seizing will be very limited.

The EU is dependent on them for energy.

 

Nothing. The arrogance and hypocrisy of this nation know no bounds, apparently.

 

you ever read history books?

we'll be fine, russia, not so much

polls show most people are against the invasion

putin is the one who was fooled, he thought he was going to get to control all of ukraine

it has backfired on him, then he did something stupid and the consequences won't be good for russia or ukraine

 

You think those are accurate and unbiased?

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That's American propaganda.

 

that depends

and i guess that means 'no' you don't read history books

so how can you know our history without reading about it?

no, that's all of my own depiction

 

no he just wants crimea

 

We'll see. I suspect he'll try to gobble up more of Ukraine.

 

We do have options although I doubt they're ones that Obama would want to take.

Kick Russia out of the G-8. Frankly, in an economic sense they didn't deserve to be a member in the first place.

Withdraw from the new START Treaty. It would show Russia that Obama is really serious (this time) because it's something Obama wanted more than the Russians did. But that's why it's not going to happen.

Publicly backtrack on the proposed defense dept cuts, blaming the dangerous world ect...

Push NATO to expand east. We limited that out of deference to the Russians, but maybe we shouldn't defer to them? That's really the only way to secure the sovereignty of those countries, and it's the thing that Putin would hate the most.