Common argument on voter ID law: it's not a big problem

Yes. Any tax is not a poll tax. You are attempting to claim that this ID would be used specifically for voting.

It isnt. Sorry. Besides: I support giving every legal citizen in this country who does not already have an ID one for free.

How many people is that, BTW? 7? Go ahead: post the massive list of these people who don't have ID, BEggs.

Continually I have demanded of you liberals a list of this supposedly disenfranchised group. I would like to see if you can actually produce any even near the number of clearly disenfranchised voters through documented convictions of voter fraud.

Get to it.

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Most. Great. Oh wait. So?

Who is this 'they'? Stop making BS up.

Many older voters? Produce them; I do not believe you.

 

Shoes are not required to vote. a bus ride prior to voting is not required either. I walked to the polls all the time. If the government requires me to get an ID for the purpose of voting, that is a poll tax.... dancing around will not change that fact.

 

Another dodge.

If buying an ID to vote is a poll tax then you need to make your case. I'll do your legwork for you. Now tell the class how a voter ID is the same as the following...................................................

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_(United_States)

In U.S. practice, a poll tax was used as a de facto or implicit pre-condition of the exercise of the ability to vote. This tax emerged in some states of the United States in the late 19th century as part of the Jim Crow laws. After the ability to vote was extended to all races by the enactment of the Fifteenth Amendment, many Southern states enacted poll tax laws as a means of restricting eligible voters; such laws often included a grandfather clause, which allowed any adult male whose father or grandfather had voted in a specific year prior to the abolition of slavery to vote without paying the tax. These laws, along with unfairly implemented literacy tests and extra-legal intimidation,[1] achieved the desired effect of disfranchising African-American and Native American voters, as well as poor whites.

 

is driving two hours one way to the polls a constitutional requirement?

 

Typical goal post move.

No objection from me here. But.... why aren't the republicans giving every legal citizen in their states a free ID??

Find me the massive list of voter fraud. Voter ID laws and early voting restrictions are projected to disenfranchise roughly 10% of (mostly Democratic) voters.

LOL, you don't believe anything.. not even the explicit words in the 24th Amendment. I'm not going to keep spoonfeeding you just to have you move the goal post more. Accept that the 24th Amendment is what it is.

We are in agreement about free IDs. Why isn't the GOP providing them (since voter fraud is such a massive problem)?

 

So you've boiled your ridiculous untenable position down to the unsupportable stance that only those who can actually walk to the voting booth are doing so Constitutionally.

Congratulations. Your specious and dishonest position occupies the spot we all knew it does: Canardville.



See this sign? One just like it is posted prominently at the door of my village hall.

That's where we vote, pods.

 

Your post actually confirmed my point

(Hint: "de facto or implicit pre-conditon of the exercise of the ability to vote")

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Does it matter? Transportation is not an excuse to disenfranchise individuals. Votes can be mailed in.

Wait, absentee voting is being restricted also......

(See where we are going with this... ?)

 

Um..wat? I have never wavered from my stance, nor the description of it.

Better question I suppose is...why aren't Democrats? You're the ones claiming that it is a problem to obtain them.

Link, and list please. The list of voter fraud has already been posted, and multiple times. You, however, have posted NOTHING.

I'm not reading what you are; you're fabricating meaning which doesn't exist. It said citizens. You running away squawking doesn't change that you haven't produced evidence of any particular voter's citizenship, have you now?

How do you propose to do so?

I'll tell you what, pork chop. You provide me a list of those voters which supposedly have no ID, and I'll organize the GOP drive to pay for each and every one of them.

Go. I'm ready to provide the impetus to get it done; you just have to provide me the customers.

 

Oh NO, ErikBEggs!!!! Would the STAMP BE CONSIDERED A POLL TAX?!?!?!?!?!

You lose.

 

.....Democrats didn't create these stupid laws that exists in RED STATE SUPERMAJORITIES.

Stop trolling.

Here are some voter fraud statistics.

Obviously.

There are plenty of voter fraud statistics. The truth is, voter fraud affects a handful of votes out of millions.

No, I'm not providing you anything else for you to continue to move the goal post. Come up with a solution to get people to vote FOR Republicans, rather than trying to get people NOT to vote for Democrats.

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Yes, a stamp is a poll tax. What part of "sum of money" do you not understand?!?!

 

keep tap dancing. requiring a citizen to purchase an ID card for the purpose of voting is a poll tax. Poll taxes are unconstitutional. That's just a fact.

 

Repeating your defeated argument isn't gaining you any credibility. ID cards - as described in the link I supplied - are used for many 'critical' purposes.

In addition: where is this list of purported citizens who have no form of ID? I want to see it, because I do not believe they exist, and I believe liberals are creating a suppressed group out of thin air to continue their dishonesty.

 

Your biased links mean nothing. Conservatives have posted actual court convictions. Let's see your list now, BEggs. I'll be content with a list which matches the size only of the list provided of the convicted felons who voted in Al Franken's race.

Sure, sure Erik. And you don't seem concerned about the handful of the actually disenfranchised at the hands of those fraudulent cases, particularly in cases like the Franken race, where the actual thousand felons swung the race.

And particularly since you haven't even provided a handful of actual people who don't have ID. Not even a handful.

Um...wut? You cannot provide even a single case of a person without an ID? Well. Seems as though the issue is solved then. Provide ID should be law, as everyone clearly already has one. You seem unable to prove otherwise, don't you?

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Understand that I am running circles around you. I just got you to admit that you support poll taxes, as you yourself claimed that if no other alternative exists, you can simply mail your vote in, paying as a poll tax a stamp.

You keep losing the ball, bubba.

 

as I said earlier in this thread, my own father, after he passed the age of 80, let his driver's license expire.... and his passport had expired also. He continued to vote in every city, state, and national election until his death at age 95. He had no valid ID. He was a well known attorney... a former state legislator.... a lifelong citizen of his community... he voted at the same gymnasium in the grade school near his home for over 50 years. If someone had told him he needed to purchase an ID card in order to vote, he would have filed a lawsuit, and won, no doubt.

 

Oh, in your head it would have been no doubt. Of course, decrepit liberals aren't really my concern, nor is the truth that every State has the facility to exchange a driver's license for a State ID your concern.

 

*Sigh*



I did NOT say that a voter should mail in a vote and PAY for a stamp. Stamps can be waived. The government just can send you a return envelope when they mail your ID. Paid-postage return envelopes are not uncommon. Ugh!



Your arguments are just too devoid of coherent thought. I'm done.

 

And, I suppose, that if, at the time my father was letting his license expire, there had been a provision to exchange it for a photo ID free of charge, he would have availed himself of that option. It wasn't, nor was providing a photo ID at the polls a requirement either.

If the state requires a citizen to pay for an ID for the purpose of voting, it's a poll tax. what is so hard to understand about that? If it were really a question of voter ID and not over suppression, why wouldn't the righties here be jumping at the chance to provide photo ID absolutely free of charge?

 

They are not critical thinkers. They can't put two and two together. It isn't their fault:

 

ROFLMAO. This is what a defeated liberal smells like, people. BEggs here says that people can simply mail in their vote, and once it is pointed out that said stamp would be considered a poll tax AS DEFINED BY THESE VERY LIBERALS, is now is desperately attempting to claim something about a return envelope when mailing an ID.

Of course, BEggs will fail to produce ONE EXAMPLE IN HISTORY of any voter who mailed in their vote - paying for their own stamp - where the Government reimbursed said voter.

You've lost, and now you're decaying on the battlefield, BEggs. BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Nice attempt at another insult, BEggs. Except my ID is higher than yours by a considerable margin, and I'll bet $1000 on that assertion.

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I already have expressed that position, expatriate. Have you not been able to pay attention? In addition, not only do I not know a Conservative here which doesn't take that same position, YOU don't EITHER.

 

I think you meant to say that your IQ was higher... but the fact that you couldn't hit the "Q" instead of the "D" would make that a losing wager, I'd imagine.

And I'll match yours against mine any day.... and I'll match my educational CV against yours as well.

Does every state give ID cards to registered voters for free? I am not aware of that.

 

The government requires you to put postage on absentee ballots. Not a poll tax, nor would a modestly priced voter ID card be. Dancing around will not change that fact. No idea where the left picked up the dumb "voter ID = poll tax" narrative. It's as dumb as some of the things RWers are saying about the Bundy situation, and not backed up by any controlling legal precedent I'm aware of.

 

your lack of awareness is not my concern.

http://scholar.valpo.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1136&context=vulr

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlo...aclu-of-arkansas-files-suit-over-voter-id-law

and I used to mail my absentee ballots back to the states from ships I was serving on and I NEVER had to put a stamp on those ballots.

 

If someone can find a way to make it through the day without a photo ID - and I have stated that my father certainly could - then requiring those citizens to pay even a dime for a photo ID that they need solely for voting is a poll tax. period. Again... if the issue is eliminating voter fraud and not merely suppressing votes, then give everyone a free ID that they use at the polls. What is wrong with that idea?

 

How cute that he can use google and type in "voter id poll tax" then cut and paste the results here... obviously without reading the law review article or else he'd realize that both sources support what I previously posted. There is no controlling federal precedent equating a mere ID with a poll tax. Else neither the law review article nor the Arkansas blog article would exist. Who knows what a partisan judge may say in the future? but for now. It's not the law. (Did you really think I'm stupid enough to believe you actually read that law review article? I'm not, and you didn't, else you would have cited some specific case from it.)

As far as soldiers being relieved from putting postage on absentee ballots? soldiers get free mail. John Q Public does not, and whenever John Q puts postage on an absentee ballot? No poll tax.

 

I never said there was.

And I did read the article.

I made the argument that requiring voters to pay for ID in order to vote was a poll tax... the law review article in question certainly documents court decisions - in Georgia particularly - that agree with that argument. In the article Section 3.B. is entitled "Poll Tax–Voter ID Statutes Impose a Direct Cost on the Right to Vote". Clearly, legal scholars are concerned about how voter ID laws need to be drafted in order to avoid the poll tax issue, and how they interact with the Federal REAL ID act.