So, there it is: Divide and rule. We saw the Bush administration pull it off with the Shia and Sunnis in Iraq, and now Obama wants to do the same with the Ukrainians and Russians. Same strategy, different continent. This is Obamas plan for the New Ukraine a fascist-ruled failed state that follows Washingtons directives and puts pressure on Russia thorough endless provocations, belligerence, and war. Ukraine will be Washingtons pit bull in the East, separating Moscow from crucial sources of revenue and thwarting efforts at greater EU-Russia economic integration. This is how Washington hopes to insert itself into Eurasia, to improve its prospects in the Great Game, and to establish global hegemony into the next century. Read more A Russophobic, Failed State Ruled By Fascists Obamas New Ukraine http://veracityvoice.com/?p=20331 I would like to hear Your opinion about it .
My opinion is that it's silly to think Obama has as much, if any, influence in the situation as old voters in the US want to think he does. He's yammering for the sake of those old Americans so heavily indoctrination by the western Cold War propaganda they grew up with that they litteraly can't see it's over. They think Russian action is a resurgence of the Cold War. They cannot see that Russia is now back to being-and-doing all that it was-and-did before the grand experiment with bolshevism, namely... being Russia... which means, pushing out and expanding when expansion is the way to protect interests. The movement of Russia in Crimea, with all its Russian Black Sea ports, and with it being a land over which the Ukraine has no solid historical claim, was so obvious and predictable I am amazed by those who didn't see it coming. Add to that the fact that ordinary Americans known nothing (and I do mean zero... nada... zip) about the historical internal grudge between eastern and western Ukranianians. A few Canadians are aware of it, because they have Ukranian immigrants, but Americans know nothing. The most Obama can do is offer a shield over the EU, and my opinion is that the result will be a split of east and west Ukraine into two countries, with west-Ukraine joining the EU to live closer to the western ways it aspires to, while east-Ukraine will cozy up to Russia under slavonic hegemony.
It is very interesting point of view . Another words Obama is only a pupet of the US ruling class . As for me, I think another US president will do the same . Obama is not so bad man .
Obama is playing a dangerous game that he won't win. If you recall, the US stopped beating the war drums in Iran....once they realized they were stepping on China's toes. The problem this time is that Obama has gone 'all in' with Ukraine. What must be realized is that a robust Russia is a linchpin in China's grand game and this can only go so far before it makes itself heard. China can, and Obama knows it, at any time dump its dollar and Euro holdings, which would be a disaster for the West. Of course, such a move would be costly for China, but it could recover from it. The real question is how far can the US's belligerence be allowed to go before the plug is pulled. At some point, the cost of dumping the US will be seen as less than maintaining it and then our debt chicken comes home to roost. Who knows, that point may have been reached and things just have not played out yet. Personally, I feel Obama has crossed a red line already. I look for Putin to try to find a way through this and to de-link Europe from this aggression, leaving the US isolated. That would be the best outcome for us all. Failing that, we'll be ruing this escapade for many years.
I do not know what Canadian Ukrainians want, but I agree they better know the region then average American and so do I. I see the same scenario in the future. It would be much better to avoid unnecessary bloodshed, but too many people can be convinced only after having a few punches in the face and kicks in the butt. Minutes ago I watched CNN, again. They show meaningless probably selected for the purpose pictures and talk about pro-Russian militants, never show anti Maidan crowds of civilian people, including women, young and old people. Nobody interviewed those. Obama is kissing butts of Saudi princes, just like G.W. Bush did and does not want to "spread democracy" their. He is really a president without back bone or any bold progressive agenda. A Chicago city slicker is our president now. He won last elections, because of even worse alternatives.
It's complicated. No American President operates without the blessing of its ruling class, but they must also operate according to "The Will of the People", which is why the ruling class of America strives so hard to control media, through which they can bring "The Will of the People" into alignment with the will of the ruling class, however, in this case it is further complicated by Western Europe, dependant on Russia for oil, yet afraid, because the Cold War is over, which means Russia is back to being the Russia of old, unencumbered by Marxist idiology, such that to a large extent it is the EU pulling Obama into the fray, because of how west-Ukrainians, wishing to join the EU, have been able to convinced west-Europe that it's a Russia-versus the EU issue,.when in fact it's just a modern expression of an old east-Ukraine vs west-Ukraine issue of being west-European vs being Slav. The solution will be to separate east-Ukraine from west-Urkaine, with west-Ukraine joining the EU, and with east-Ukraine strengthening its Slavonic ties and heritage. Yes. In this case, Obama is obviously speaking according to a script. Indeed, and that has made his job hard. He has made no secret of how he can hardly wait until his term is over. In the beginning, he really thought he could bring dispirit people together for rational dialogue of solution to their problems.
This is a situation where the US should back off and raise it's claws. It's *not* a Russia-vs-EU/America issue... that's all been played up by the Ukrainians themselves, who are working out an old historical grudge. Imagine the difference between Yankees of the north versus Good Ol'd Boys of the south... people with different attitudes yet forced by history and circumstance to be in the same nation, with not much in common other than language and currency. Now.. image those differences amplified an order of magnitude. That's the Ukraine, with the difference being between east-Ukraine vs west-Ukraine... and with neither of them having much to say about the Crimea other than it was a historical "gift". West Ukraine has always been... western, while east Ukraine has a slavonic tradition so deep many in east-Ukraine think they are the world's only "true" slavs... but they were stuck together by historical circumstance, and they stayed together by virtue of common language and because resources and industry are unevenly divided, such that they needed each other to do business. If you meet someone who says he's Ukrainian, ask him if he's east-Ukraine or west-Ukraine, and ask him what the thinks of the other. Along comes the EU offering membership to any European nation capable of meeting its standards, and of course western-Ukrainians jump on it. In the mean time, eastern-Ukrainians are fretting about how they're the last of the "true" slavs. Now, parallel to that is Russia with the advantage of being one of two nations self-sufficient in natural resources, such that she can survive alone if need be (which is why the Soviet system was able to hold out for so long), but on the other hand, always being f-cked up by geography, with all the rivers flowing the wrong way, which means ports and world trade have always been a problem. Until the northern icecap thaws from global warming in order to free up northern ports, mother Russia *needs* Black Sea ports the way Uncle Sam *needs* the Panama Canal. Putin sees Ukranian internal dissent broiling up over Ukrainian membership in the EU, so he uses that moment of disorder to move into Crimea - a land the Ukraine has virtually no real historical claim over - to secure Russian ports, which eastern-Ukrainians don't really care about, because Crimea was never really part of the Ukraine, plus eastern-Ukrainians like Russians. Meanwhile, the EU wonders out loud if it might be indicative of NWO-Russian agression against innocent little nations, and western-Ukrainians jump on that to scream about Russian invasion, and get the EU all flustered. The EU calls on Uncle Sam to back them up, and all of a sudden Obama and the US are dragged into a snot-nosed internal Ukranian dispute. Of course Russians and Putin knew about the historic internal Ukrainian grudge, which is why they knew when to strike to take Crimea. Did Putin send in ops to keep things stirred up until they had the Crimea secured? If you were him, would you have? Russia wants Crimea, so the longer Ukranians stay confused, the better. In the end, you've got Russia holding re-secured Black Sea ports, and you've got western-Ukranians wanting to join the EU while still hating eastern-Ukranians wanting to hold onto their slavonikness, with the EU scratching it's head and with Uncle Sam being dragged in wondering WTF it's been woken up in the middle of the night for. The solution is to call the Ukrainians before a world council and say, "Be careful what you ask for, because you might get it", and both the EU and Russia oversee a split of the Ukraine into east-Ukraine and west-Ukraine, with west-Ukraine joining the EU, and east-Ukraine becomeing a Russian trade-partner, and with Uncle Sam being the overseer to make sure the EU and Russia play fair. Ukrainians are extremely smart, but they have a historical tendency to charge like a bull into an anvil like when Bugs Bunny pulls the red cape away.
Omicron, the US was not dragged into this. It has been the chief meddler. Our hands are all over the coup in Kiev and everything that has flowed from it. I'm fairly sure it was Russia that had a 'WTF' moment and not the US.
It makes no sense. What interests does Uncle Sam have there to be meddling in the first place? Stir things up, and only Russia wins. What if Putin just rigged it to look like American meddling? That's the kind of thing American special ops would love to have pulled off somewhere.
Omicron, just go back to the Victoria Nuland '(*)(*)(*)(*) the EU' phone call and you'll see we were deciding who should be in the new government before the old one was deposed. Our foreign policy has been to overthrow/destabilize nations seen as a threat to the US Dollar's hegemony.China and Russia are the 2 primary nations in that effort. You see what is happening in Ukraine. Also of note is Obama's just completed, mostly failed, Asian trip. Not getting much notice but significant given the backdrop of events is Secretary of Defence Hagel's visit to Mongolia. He signed a 'joint vision' agreement there, citing Mongolia as a 'stabilizing force' in the region. The board is shifting; power plays are being made. I've said before that the US actions are borne of desperation as the dolllar's status is being eroded. That desperation comes from a $20 Trillion debt we racked up while squandering our position as sole superpower. It's such a waste
I doubt, if Obama had any plan for Ukraine seriously. He does not care much, leaving it to EU and NATO.
Okay, so I did a scan of the Victoria Nuland phone call, and here's what comes out: 1) "...the US has not denied its veracity..." In otherwords, Uncle Sam had a guy on-shift that night doing his normal job of waking up long enough to hit a button every time he thinks he's hearing something that might be important... 2) "...and has been quick to point a finger at the Russian authorities for being behind its interception and leak..." And so in the meeting next morning, superiors go over the logs, and debate over what they should say about knowing that nobody's supposed to know they can hear everything first and that technically Russians intercepted it first and then leaked it. They kick it upstairs. 3) "The US says that it is working with all sides in the crisis to reach a peaceful solution...", says a spokesperson in a panic speech while his bosses figure out what's going on... of course the US has fingers in all pies, therfore of course the statement must say that all sides are being considered. 4) "noting that "ultimately it is up to the Ukrainian people to decide their future". (which means guys and gals in State know it's an internal Ukranian issue) 5) "(However this transcript suggests that the US has very clear ideas about what the outcome should be and is striving to achieve these goals. Russian spokesmen have insisted that the US is meddling in Ukraine's affairs." Oh... you mean the part about how if you want peace in that region then do guts and let Ukranians do something they only dreamed of, which was split without their economy collapsing? Used to be they had to trade with each other because of language. Putin's NWO-Russia gets east-Ukraine, western Ukranians get the EU, and a problem going on between Ukranians for centuries is settled. Well... so it's been learned that freedom on American-level leaves fat sue-happy currency manipulators a way to feed kids and put them through college on their level of definition of what it takes to stay alive. It's not stopping the good church-going people of America to say it's B*S and that the world can drop the false currency and everything goes back to square... which China isn't going to care about because to them the interest from government bonds was just bonus... what they really want is the food. They don't mind working stupid jobs, but they want good food, and they are too overpopulated to grow beef. I'm not kidding you. This is an internal Ukranian issue that Putin just used as an easy way to get the Crimea, and if State Deprtment people said stupid things to sound like they knew what they were talking about to keep their jobs, then... that's what people say when required to fluff like a peakock to show the bastard winners of the capitalist war that work is being done for the money. Good that not much notice was noticed. I wish I was in on the part about giving Mongolia stuff in exchange for being able to look at both China and Russia. Sir... what if.. while power is still intact... by virtue of because it was decided to say so... Uncle Sam sas the currency is reevaluated in terms of food, where a dollar now has to be worth a cob of corn to the kids? Notice how that's where Lucifer freaks because he wants to stop souls from going to heaven and it was supposed to stop by now but Gorbachov stopped what was supposed to be Armagedon by now.
this would be splendid...other than for the obvious lack of ..er..uh...any evidence whatsoever as to the US' plan for 'new Ukraine' word has it that Russian hegemony, contrary to Putins attempts, is fading faster that one can say rootin tootin putin.... and no, the Neuland phone call does not constitute proof of any kind..
I want to know what Russians think/feel about Ukrainians. - - - Updated - - - I was taught Ukrainians are the only true Russians.
So you are west-Ukraine... I don't know what to say, other than if you can work and you have something to trade, then you may join the EU, to split as western-EU, like how ChekoSlovakia split in peace, and like how Jugoslavia split... while Uncle Sam stands alert and watches something it finally doesn't have to get involved in. BTW - I am from the west, which means all you from the east are better educated, so... how do I humbly present myself before your superior education: Where did this song come from: http://weepingwidow.mp3
Very western Ukraine. Would it break your heart to break from east Ukraine? Seriously... only idiots wishing their way to become capitalists by taking advantage of false simulation could make a global issue out of it. It goes back to something my Ukranian friends said: East and West Ukranians hate each other. Do you want to split? Here's some Canadian music for you to think: http://stuff.digitalock.com/dropyourguns.mp3
perhaps ask a Russian? by and large I think they like each other a lot. other than the nationalist crazies, oh, and the hegemonic types in Russia..who think everything belongs to Russia.. ......
Admit it... eastern Ukranians and western Ukrainians are each unto each other the greatest forms of each other that @#$%hole @#$%^&* Lucifer is the one I am going to kill in retro on the way shooting up from a parachute dive.
