I think I was date-raped last weekend, what should I do?

Blah Blah Blah Blah

 

You don't have to be passed out in order to not be able to communicate.

Whether you consider it garbage isn't really the point, you have obviously decided already what you consider to be rape or not, that is not what a court does it basis it's verdicts on the available evidence.

Again it is all based on the understanding of what constitutes 'sound mind' consent.

 

I was talking, up and active.... how was she supposed to know how out of it I really was? How is a guy supposed to know a girl is blacked out active? again, I'm not saying if she's passed out on a bed, that's free taking.... I'm saying... I was completely active, and talking, yet remember just bits and pieces.


now, as a guy, I was "leading" my tango that night... imagine a girl remembering pieces like I did.... just remembering being in different rooms getting banged.... even with different guys each time she remembered. she could be walking and talking, just like I was, and any guy that obliged her requests that night is no more guilty of date-rape than my flavor of the month girl was.

I'm not protesting the rule so I can increase my chances of success with girls.... I argue the rule because lives should not be ruined because a girl who said yes, regrets her decision. Alcohol is no excuse for poor decisions.

but in rape accusations... the accusation alone can ruin a person. "sound mind" is subjective.

 

That is your perception of the matter, what you consider 'active' may not meet the standard required by a court.

I would hope that some men would be more of a gentleman, realize the situation and help the lady not just use the situation to get a quick (*)(*)(*)(*) .. same goes the other way as well.

You see this is the problem, you are placing the responsibility onto the drunk person when it should be with the one who is not drunk, or is at least less drunk.

Just as it can with other accusations, nature of the beast I'm afraid .. answer is to not place yourself in the situation where you could be accused of committing rape.

Sound mind is a legal term and is not subjective.

 

how is she to know then... I was apparently having conversations about 'stuff going on', I just don't remember it. I was completely impaired though. it seems the only thing that determines rape or not is whether I liked it or not.... and that to me, should never be a determining factor in rape....



forced - rape
drugged - rape
sex with an unconcious person - rape

I would hope that people could be allowed to teach girls how to avoid dangerous situations without being accused of being a mysogonist "because girls should be allowed to act any way they want"

the drunk person also has responsibility.... (not if they were roofied) but if they chose to get intoxicated.... they most certainly have responsibility


But I'm only saying if they say yes while drunk. If they say no.... drunk or not.... it's rape.

here here..... I don't have to worry.... but a girl who liked me had sex with drunk me is not rape.... and that can very easily, if not more easily, happen to a guy who likes a girl who doesn't like him back.... she gets drunk and calls him because her and her bf is fighting.... and she ends up saying yes to him and they have sex. It's not rape because she was drunk and didn't want to get dumped by her bf for sleeping with a friendzoned guy.

 

Even you are not naive enough to believe a person doesn't know when another is capable of fully understanding what they are consenting to .. you may feel it is wrong but the onus is not on the person who is drunk, it is on the person deemed to be the most rational of the two. In the case you offered in the OP it would be the woman deemed to be the one who was most rational and the fact that she took advantage of your lowered defenses due to your drunk state - regardless if you gave consent or not - is in fact rape or sexual assault, and to a certain degree you are right it is pretty much down to whether the 'victim' feels they are violated or not.

I have a hypothetical scenario for you :

You go out to a party, you get very, very drunk and some guy offers you a lift home, during the ride home it transpires that your good Samaritan is gay and has been eying you up all night, he suggest that you get it on with him and due to your high drunk state you agree .. the next morning you have memory flashes of what occurred including your "consent", yet you feel violated (assuming you are not gay) .. what do you do, do you shrug it off or not?

You can add a person not capable of making a 'sound mind' decision to that list.

Most rapes, contrary to a lot of peoples beliefs, are committed by someone known to the victim . .that person would have prior knowledge of the victims feelings towards them, if the alleged rapists asks themselves the question would this person if sober still give consent and the answer is no, then for them to continue would be rape and/or sexual assault. To assume that a drunk person can change their mind from their sober state of not being interested in sex with you to being interested is not them making a 'sound mind' decision but one based on the effects alcohol has on the brain, if you accept this as consent then you are taking advantage . .regardless if the drunken state is self inflicted or not.

I see no reason not to teach ALL people the dangers of alcohol induced decisions, young women need to be taught what it can mean, just as young men need to be, and let us not forget that a woman can be charged with rape in exactly the same way as a man .. the difference is the perspective of the incident.

No a drunk person only has responsibility for their own state they do not have, nor are capable of having responsibility for another person decisions and again this is where you must make the decision as to whether the woman (or man) is in fact in a sound mind state, make a mistake in that judgement and you could find yourself in court hence why I say it is always best to remain sober enough to make such a decision.

It's rape if the court / jury decide that you took advantage of the other person due to their decreased cognitive ability.

Than that boy should show restraint, he knows she doesn't want him and as such he should be questioning why she is calling him up now .. if she is drunk and he is not then he knows that she is not capable of giving consent and as such if he does hook up with her he is in fact taking advantage of her situation, regardless of what she has said and/or done .. that also works in the opposite as well .. ie boy calls girl etc etc.

 

we seem to have different definitions of capable. Having a conversation with a person, even if drunk or on drugs, seems capable enough. As out of it as I was, I held an erection the entire time.... I barely remember, but apparently I did. just because you don't remember saying yes, does not mean you didn't. Are you suggesting any girl at a bar is off limits or rape if you sleep with her, despite her consenting and it's simply up to her to decide after the fact? I don't.

I will assume I got myself drunk, and that he didn't roofie me, or say it was orange juice and really gave me fruity alcohol to trick me....


I self reflect..... if 3 beer makes me queer.... and I don't like that.... then I need to quit drinking

if a girl knows they get horny while drunk and make poor choices in men in that state.... then they should quit putting themselves in drunk situations around guys that are looking to get laid. Bring a "mother hen" with you. Limit yourself to what you can handle.... it's not the guys fault you make poor choices while drunk and for all he knows... he may think he's attractive and she wants him.

so saying yes because you went to bed with a 10 at 2am, then changing your minde because you woke up with a 2 at 10am /= 'not of sound mind'

no fat chick ever would get laid if not for bad decisions thanks to Bud Weiser....

somewhat skewed stat depending on what you consider "rape"

I understand that a friendzoned guy, who is letting a girl he wants to bone, cry and complain about her cheating boyfriend, knows the girl he has consentual sex with.... Just because she sobers up and realizes the b/f found out about her cheating, doesn't mean she can then change her story and blame alcohol.... at least it shouldn't. So in that case, yes, she knew him. But that poor guy who now is getting accused of rape was not seeing it as a chance to steal him some... he sees it as an opportunity to start a relationship, possibly.

I have screwed more girls who had crappy cheating b/f's over tequilla and wanting to get even with "the bastard" than I care to admit I knew every single one of them and played the (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)bag that sold the bf out just as soon as I saw an opportunity.

But everyone said yes....

I agree with this. but perspective should not be subjective to getting caught cheating, and changing your story after the fact, or discovering the guy was an ugly stage 5 clinger the next morning and because the girls' friends were laughing at her or people start calling her a whore.... changing it to "oh, it was the alcohol.... date-rape"

saying yes is their own state.... if they cant control who they sleep with while drunk.... sounds like time for an intervention....not to start accusing everyone of date-rape

agreed... passed out is fine.... but hell, nyquill decreases cognitive ability.... where is the magic line in the sand we can't cross before women get a change their mind option?
shades of gray is my concern... not full on passed out sex

how do you know.... ever ask a girl out more than once to finally convince her to go out with you and it lead to a more serious relationship.


For all this poor kid could know.... he finally convinced her he's not friendzone material....




funny story.... I was friendzoned in highschool hard by a girl. I was that typical best friend that was in love with her, but she only saw me as an older brother kinda guy.... crap sucks....


Well, finally, she started dating a guy and I just said to myself... I'm never going to be more, so I just cut her out of my life completely.... Cold turkey.

15 years go by and we reconnect because of facebook. Oh look, I see she's a lesbian now. Well, she comes back to town to visit family with her equally hawt new g/f and we are hanging out, catching up, looking at year books, and drinking.... They approach me with an offer, get my exfriend pregnant.


Let me tell you, that was the hardest 3 way I ever had to purposely screw up. lol

 

In general women are not culpable for their decisions to the extent men are. Women are given 63% lighter sentences than men when they've committed the same crime and that's after being many times less likely to even be prosecuted in the first place:

Estimating Gender Disparities in Federal Criminal Cases


Sonja B. Starr

University of Michigan Law School

August 29, 2012

University of Michigan Law and Economics Research Paper, No. 12-018

Abstract:
This paper assesses gender disparities in federal criminal cases. It finds large gender gaps favoring women throughout the sentence length distribution (averaging over 60%), conditional on arrest offense, criminal history, and other pre-charge observables. Female arrestees are also significantly likelier to avoid charges and convictions entirely, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted. Prior studies have reported much smaller sentence gaps because they have ignored the role of charging, plea-bargaining, and sentencing fact-finding in producing sentences. Most studies control for endogenous severity measures that result from these earlier discretionary processes and use samples that have been winnowed by them. I avoid these problems by using a linked dataset tracing cases from arrest through sentencing. Using decomposition methods, I show that most sentence disparity arises from decisions at the earlier stages, and use the rich data to investigate causal theories for these gender gaps.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002

 

I've had numerous conversation with drunk people and it is pretty obvious to most people whether they are actually capable or not.

The extent of your bodily functions is not the issue, it is the state of your ability to give consent.

Obviously that is not what I am saying .. the onus is on you to decide whether the person at the bar is in a state where their ability to consent is not impaired, if in doubt don't indulge, because if you do then you are leaving yourself open to charges.

would you shrug it off or not?

Again the onus is on the person who is not drunk or less drunk, not on the person who is drunk.

That depends on whether the person can even remember saying yes in the first place, and again the onus is on the person not, or less, drunk than than the other.

That is just generalization and not really relevant.

not a skewed stat at all.

Approximately 2/3 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.
73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.
38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.
28% are an intimate.
7% are a relative.

http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-offenders

Then wait until she is sober and see if the chance of the relationship is still there, if not then you know it was the "drink talking" and not a decision she would have made otherwise.

Bully for you, count yourself lucky one of them hasn't proceeded to have you arrested and charged. Ask yourself the question, is it really worth the risk.

and as I said before the accusation and investigation does not mean the person is guilty, that is for the courts to decide .. i just find it strange that a person would risk such a thing happening simply for the sake of a (*)(*)(*)(*).

and again you ignore the impaired reasoning position of a person who is drunk .. the onus lies squarely with the person who is not drunk or is less drunk.

Again that is not my decision to make, that is what the courts / jury do. If the evidence points to the person being in a position to make a sound decision then the case will fail, it is just my opinion that discretion is far better than valour in these circumstances, why even place yourself in a situation where even the remote risk is possible.

Numerous times, never while they were drunk though .. i'd rather they say yes while in full control of their decision making.

I think this is just you trying to convince yourself that it's ok to have sex with a drunk person.

and that is relevant to date rape how?

- - - Updated - - -

Which doesn't really have much to do with what constitutes date rape or not.

 

again... our "capable of" is in a gray area. walking, talking, ASKING FOR SEX, is capable.

 

He asks questions I have heard before. I think you have a problem with over generalizing certain groups of people. If you do some googling, you'll find that several of these questions HAVE in fact been answered.

Have you asked only two Christians to get these two answers? Have you applied any critical thinking and came to the conclusion that several of these questions are invalid and the YouTube poster is invoking some of those very same logical fallacies you like to bring up? It must bring you great pleasure to make yourself believe that Christians are really that dense.

As another poster mentioned, "Why, if you haven't?"

Videos get old after a while. Taking time to think about a subject and then write about it, I find to be more worthy of responses. Youur "Ball and chain" thread would be a good example of that.

 

I think the lesson we all learned in this year long thread...is that you were/are a man whore lol.

 

wow.... would you call a girl who claimed she was dateraped under the same circumstance, a whore? blaming the victim huh?

 

No..the date rape thing aside... you have so far talked about the girl you slept with who gave you a ride home and then who m you gave a ride home..then your flavor of the month club...

I said nothing abou tthe rape aspect of this thread. Rape can happen on any date no matter how long/short you have known the person.

As others have said.. if you feel violated then it needs to be reported. Men can be raped as much as a woman can and it should be taken as seriously.

 

a prostitute can still get raped.... or be taken advantage of. How many partners I had prior to, after, or even the same day of the incident does not change the fact that I, obviously impaired enough to make a decision that sober me chose not to do, was taken advantage of.

 

So why won't you report it? Or why did you refuse to report it?

 

I was scared because people would try to drag my reputation down the drain..... isn't that the excuse women give whenever date-rapes go unreported?



and since I've been called a drunk, an alcoholic, and now a man-whore in this thread, for my actions where SOMEONE ELSE saw my drunkness as an opportunity..... I think I've made my point.

 

No.

I don't get what you are expecting to get from here. You come here and complain you have been date raped and all we can do is tell you to report it to the proper authorities. What else do you want? What else can you expect? We're on a political forum, not a therapy group forum.

 

uh... yes it is.... whenever someone suggests "she asked for it" it's met with "blaming the victim" accusations.


They fear reporting it because their names will be dragged through the gutter is a real thing.

I just enjoy pointing out the hypocrasies of the fake crime known as date rape. If a crime is dependant on if the "victim" is male or female, or males and females are held to different standards.... then it's a crap law.

 

So you don't think you were actually raped then?

 

as much as a woman was given the same kind of situation I had....


her choice to drink
not drugged
she called him, who was sober, to pick her up, is clearly intoxicated, but he still has sex with her, despite her not wanting to the night before while sober.



let me also give another real story I had, and see what you think


a girl I previously had sex with, went out with 2 girl friends to a bar.... at the bar, a guy and his wife approach the girl and make it clear they want to have a 3 some. friend 2 had to take friend 3 home because she got sick, and friend one, still getting hit on, didn't want to leave.

they left her.


I get a call from that girl who was completely trashed.... wanting a ride home.


So I got up and went and got her. She was stumbling drunk, and horny as hell. Well, "ass, grass, or cash" is my motto, and I didn't smoke....


I take her back to my house and we have sex, I drop her off at her place, and now she's debating date-rape or not.

obviously she didn't at this point... but there's the hypocracy where she can decide the next day.


she called me, she took the lead, (I won't go into graphics, but you get the point) and then, because she felt guilty for cheating on her boyfriend (AGAIN) with me..... she wants to change her consent after the fact....

 

Why do you assume your situation is exactly the same as anyone else's?

 

I'm not.... if a girl is drugged... if she is drunk and says no, but he 'powers' through..... that's different, and rape.


I just get tired of hearing about girls that deliberately put themselves in situations by their own hand, who say yes, can even initiate sex, then change their mind the next day because they are ashamed they are such a slut while drinking.... so they claim date-rape.

 

Do girls talk to you a lot about their date rape experiences or something?

 

they don't have to.... but when date rapes go to court, it comes out they did indeed say yes, but it's still date-rape because she was drunk, is all I need to hear