Netenyahu to define Israel as a Jewish state

Resolution 3379 sets out some solid criteria ;

It's unfortunate that the Resolution was withdrawn decades later as a result of US diplomatic pressure. That was simply the politics of the era. It's time that 3379 was reintroduced.
It will certainly be featured by the opposition to the racism of today's Knesset.

 

You dont need to move into Israel to be converted..., large Jewish communitties lived in other countries since before Roman times.

BTW, what makes you think the Israelites were so "pure" to begin with, read the Bible and see many non-Israelites lived in the kingdom, King Saul loyal servant was not Israelite for example. its the carry of the torch that's important, not "purity".

 

5 people aren't "many".

- - - Updated - - -

handwave away. it makes no difference.

 

Five Israeli policemen torturing a Palestinian youth is quite a lot.


http://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-soldier-shoots-restrained-palestinian-close-range/3377

I suppose that ' many ' is a relative term.

 

Your comment makes no sense. Non Jewish Israelis share Israeli citizenship with Israeli Jews no differently than non Anglican English are citizens of England. The people you refer to were never Israeli citizens. There are people who were never English citizens either and may wish citizenship in Britain and they won't get it no differently than in Israel.

Where your analogy further falls apart is that there are over 125 nations that fast track ethnic identities for citizenship no different than Israel.

In the case of Japan, Belgium, Ireland, Italy, the Czech Republic, Scotland, People's Republic of China, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania,Russia, Slovak Republic, to name but a few there is no difference in their law of return compared to Israel's.

More to the point your analogy further makes zero sense in that Jordan created as a Palestinian state for years offered an automatic law of return and instant citizenship to Palestinians as long as they were not Jews. You seem for forget that or in all Arab League nations it is not possible for a Jew to seek citizenship. or that when Jordan was created as a Palestinian state it placed in its constitution, no Jew could have citizenship.

The argument you make is necessarily wrong because it is legally possible for non Jews to apply for and get Israeli citizenship and they do.

Bahaiis live in Israel where there main head-quarters is.

There are persons who want to marry Arab Israelis who have been rejected for Israeli citizenship yes. There are also Jews who have been rejected for Israeli citizenship. Their rejection is for legitimate security reasons including possible ties to terrorists or criminal activity.

Certain Jews are rejected for Israeli citizenship because their claims to being Jewish are rejected. Certain Palestinians have been rejected Israeli citizenship and others have not If a marriage is subject to one of convenience it may be questioned no differently than it is in Britain or Canada.

Arab Israelis enjoy the highest rate of living in the Middle East and so attempts to engage in marriage of convenience happens as people seek to exploit the economic opportunities. If anything your other claims that Israel is racist fall apart because if it was these people wouldn't apply for Israeli citizenship in the first place.

In the last few years Israel has been faced with a huge influx of African economic refugees and Sudanese seeking refuge and she can not accommodate them. It has everything to do with Israel's lack of space and resources.

If your analogy even had a semblance of sense it could not explain the 10,000 Serbian Muslims Israel took in as refugees during the civil war in the former Yugoslav, the same was buy the way in which not one Muslim country in the Middle East took in Muslim refugees.

 

Jonah your ignoring Ovadia's posts and your refusal to counter them and instead name call speaks for itself.

Either make an effort to counter what he says with some facts or move on. Name calling only exhibits you have no response. More to the point, you speak for yourself. You are not everyone.

You have yet to provide any proof for your racist definition of Jews having particular characteristics. Put up or shut up.

 

My response speaks for itself in 577. You misquoted it as being Ronstar's. Its not. Further as I stated, at no time did I discuss the state of Israel in the mater you have stated when discussing he definition of the collective Jewish identity and neither did Ronstar. Are posts evidence what we said and did not say and you can deny what we posted but they are there for anyone to read.

The point is very simple. You made a false allegation as to what Ronstar said and your response to him falsely attributes to him something he did not say and then further, your response in which you made your false accusation didn't even address the issue he or I were addressing with Ronstar.

He responded to Jonah with his post 576. He responded in that post to Jonah who said the state of Israel had no Jewish characteristics. In Ronstar's response to him he challenged Jonah to how that was possible, i.e., as to how Israel had no Jewish characteristics.

You then intervened and stated Israel is 25% Arab.

Your words are illogical. The fact that Israel has non Jewish citizens which no one on this forum has ever disputed, does not mean the state can not have Jewish characteristics.

More to the point as I stated, we are in fact talking about Israelis and Jewish people. Not all Israelis are Jewish people but the fact that not all Israeli people are Jewish does not mean the state can not enshrine in its laws special distinction to protect and preserve the Jewish collective identity no different than Ireland does for its people, Japan does for its people, the Czech Republic does for its people or Italy does for its people.

The fact that non Jews live in Israel as citizens does not mean the state can not have Jewish characteristics. That is the point.

That is the point Ronstar made and I made.

In fact now Alexa has come on the board and claimed Israel is refusing citizenship to non Jews inferring its only because they are non Jews and therefore to say its a Jewish state makes it different than saying England is an Anglican state.

Here comment was also illogical as I have pointed out.

Even if it were true

 

Again your comment makes no sense and you took my comments of context. I specifically stated Jews consider themselves descendants of Hebrews and Israelites and I went on to state converts to Judaism consider themselves following a religion descended from Hebrews and Israelites and believe the people whose religion they chose are Hebrews/Israelites.

You have skipped the comment I made about converts. Why? The Jews I was referring to when I said any Jews were non converts. Why did you remove it from the context in which it was said and skip over what I said about converts?

There are followers of Judaism we define as Jews even though they are not descended from Hebrews-Israelites. No one has contended otherwise. In fact I and others have specifically stated that many times to you.

What we have contended is your blanket and false statement that Jews did not originate from Hebrews and Israelites and simply popped up 500 years ago is false and it was proven false by genetic studies which you ignore and have no idea to repudiate other than to reject them outright and refuse to say what scientific evidence you have to show they are false..

The fact that some Jews are converts does not make them all as you have wrongfully contended from the get go when you said all of today's Jews popped up 500 years ago.

You also went on to make the absurd statement we Jews have particular physical characteristics. You have yet to explain your racist claim.

 

If this is a authentic even, that soldier should be court-marshaled, and probably will.

Moon, you would not happen to have an authentic video of that Palestinian boy during the say, preceding 20 minutes, showing us what he did that led to his arrest? May put things into a perspective...

 

Not everything from Electronic Intifada and B'Tselem are legitimate though. There was a gap in the video. I am not saying the soldier did not fire at the detainee, just that Electronic Intifada and B'Tselem are known to be heavily biased. There are always people with cameras ready to film the Israeli's reaction to provocations etc. There is also the well-known Palestinian movie industry known as Pallywood. As well as Reuters, France 2, Associated Press and even the BBC known to doctor and falsify photos and news footage.

 

The above statements again show you use this thread to make politically partisan opinion statements.

In regards to 1, international law has never stated there was not an ancient land of Israel or that Israel's origins in 1948 were not based on its past connections to the land-go on show where any international law states that-you can't-what you have done is to infer that and unless you can show an international law that states what you did, none exists and your attempts to infer one without it being in writing is clearly defective-let's get this clear-you don't get to arbitrarily claim something as a fact when it does not exist because there is nothing to repudiate your subjective inference-if laws do come about from implication, such as squatter's rights, they come about as a result of repeated, demonstrated practices not because Moon subjectively decides to infer something..

In regards to 2, your references to Netanyahu and uberJew are illogical. Netanyahu has never advanced any policy that defines or promotes an uberJew. Once again you throw out name calling as fact to express your own political biases that are not based on fact but your personal opinions.

In regards to 3, you make a sweeping statement that reflects nothing more than a subjective stereotype that contends the moment a state calls itself Jewish its racist which is not only illogical but again reflects your own bias.

You can keep repeating your own subjective biases over and over again. Everyone knows you make sweeping negative generalizations about Israel, Israeli Jews, Jews,supporters of Israel, people who disagree with you, Americans, on and on.

You have established that with your words. The fact is, they are not facts, just words that incite disagreement and lend to the appearance they are attempts at provoking similar opinionated responses.

 

It's a political forum and my opinions, where necessary, are backed with authoritative support.

This is incoherent Zion-twaddle- and not without a smigeon of a Rule 2 violation.

The fact is that Netanyahu is positioning for an entire State given over to the uberjew concept. Didn't you read the topic title and don't you read the papers ?

Tripe. 25% of Israelis are Palestinian citizens. Imposing any 'jewish ' State on them would be considered to be racist.
Zionism was already declared to be racist by the UN in 1975. That designation should be reintroduced under these circumstances.

Folk can choose to read my posts or not. It's the same with your extended pseudo-religious attempts to excuse the inexcusable. I only read them myself when you injudiciously use this forum for personal attacks. There is no other substantive content.

Here you go again. Of course, you already have a record of altering my quotes to suit your agenda. All I can say is that they were facts when originally posted.

 

Its not speculation, if each jewish group separated in the diaspora shares more in common genetically with each other than their host populations, they are obviously of jewish (hebraic) origin. Each group is Jewish yet cluster the closest on genetic plots. The only people that believe they are descendants of 'edom' are black hebrew israelites and the moorish science temple, both cults. Hardly the majority of people.

 

Hear, hear. Oh, and by the way, the poster in question has, in the past, altered the text to one of my posts too.

 

Also, somebody pointed out a great point. Even the Israelites of antiquity were heavily mixed with neighboring middle eastern populations, hardly any population on earth is pure. Think of Ruth in the bible, moabites, hittites, etc. However in the diaspora things changed, there was some mixing to varying degrees, but on a much smaller scale especially in europe due to anti-semitism and rabbinical judaism. Its hard to get a conversion, its a difficult process. The point is the main ethnic/tribal component of jewish people in europe and middle east and north africa is hebrew/israelite. Again, hardly any group on earth is pure. The Jews are no exception, they picked up mediterranean admixture in europe and assyrian and babylonian admixture in iraq and some arab admixture in yemen. But as genetic studies show, all of these groups mentioned share more in common with each other which shows hebraic origin. The exception are some libyan jews (possibly have a large berber component) and of course ethiopian jews (largely black ethiopian) and Indian jews (mostly indian) and chinese jews (practically chinese with small traces of some hebraic ancestry, but minimal).

 

Trout mask th post he claimed I altered with the word "the"did not change the meaning of his quote at all. In fact the meaning he then tried to attribute to the quote did entirely.

As for the last incident you jump on, he once again misquoted and misrepresented and got caught and tries to change that fact.

As for you if you claim I altered the contents of your posts put up or shut up or better still complain to the moderator but the tag team ain't gonna change what he misquoted and I would kindly ask you stay on topic not try bait me.

 

In regards to 1: you engage in an inconsistent approach. You constantly demand others provide proof of their statements but you do not. What you do in this response is to suggest you are allowed to give subjective opinions since its a political forum, but if others do, you will demand a different standard of them and demand proof. Your posts speak for themselves. The words indicate you demand others provide references and complain when they present subjective opinions demanding they back up their statements, but you do not and that is why I challenge you, not because you resent subjective opinions but because you present them as proclamations of absolute truth when they are not. I challenge you because you demand a standard of others on this forum you disagree with you do not demand of those on this forum that agree with your subjective opinions. I did not challenge your right to express a subjective opinion but the inconsistent manner in which you demand others provide references when you do not.

2-This exhibits how you name call and refuse to debate. The name calling simply evidences you have no ability to debate with alternative arguments, but will name call and this is why I challenge your words as lacking credibility and simply engaging in an exercise of inciting rudeness with such words-they do not show respect or a willingness to debate but the exact opposite,.

3-No those are not facts. You provided no proof at all of your assertions. What you did is express a subjective opinion and once again state it as an indisputable fact ad this is why I challenge your words. They are not a fact. They are your made up subjective opinion. You offer zero proof of them because you can't proof them, they are your subjective impression of his policies. This is why I challenge you. You try pose your subjective opinions and allegations as to Netanyahu's motives with zero proof and demand people take it at face value.

4- You again name call and once again engage in lack of coherent, logical formatting of your words. The fact that 25% of Israel is non Jewish does not make it racist. The fact it enshrines the protection of the collective Jewish identity in its state status does not make it racist. You would have people believe that the fact Israel protects the Jewish collective identity it must make it racist. Well this is illogical for many reasons. First off the state never defined Jewish identity as a race. That's your subjective misrepresentation using the phallacy that the Jewish definition is based on race.Not even Hamas or the Palestinian Authority claim the definition of Jewish people as envisioned by the Jewish state is based on race. You do though as does Jonah and that is why you are challenged. even the UN you quoted stopped calling Zionism racism when it became apparent how absurd the accusation was. What you have repeatedly failed to do as has Alexa, in your allegations of racism against Israel and in your allegations automatically asking anyone to assume a Jewish state must be racist, refuse repeatedly to explain how if that is so, non Jews served and serve in the IDF of their own free will, are elected to the Knesset and as mayors, are treated in the same hospitals as Jewish Israelis and have the highest standard of living of any non Jew in the Middle East. You fail to explain how there are Arab Israelis and non Jewish Israelis who both refuse to call themselves Palestinians and refuse your contention that the state should be disbanded as a Jewish one.

You fail to explain how if its a racist state, the Supreme Court has enforced the right of non Jews to own land. You fail to explain why this country has Muslim Judges, the working language of the government is Arabic not just Hebrew, and it has over125 Human rights organizations funded by Israel that support human rights of non Jews.

You fail to explain why it is that all the rights Muslims have in Israel Jews do not have in the Arab nations.

You fail to explain how it is Muslims have their own family and religious courts in Israel.

Your contention Israel must automatically be racist because it is a Jewish state is as absurd as stating England must be automatically racist because its an Anglican state, or the Vatican is racist or the over 125 countries that offer lawsof return for identified ethnic groups no different than Israel are racist.

You have failed to contend how Saudi Arabia, and the Gulf nations are not racist when you are aware they import cheap labour from Senegal, oher Black muslim African countries, the Phillippines, Indonesia, Pakistan and Bangladesh and openy exploit them.

You remain silent when Musli fundamentalists kidnap Christian girls and when Sudan engages in genocide against Christians and now threatens to kill a woman for marrying a Christian declaring her an apostate.

You remain silent as to the barbaric applications of sharia law in Sudan, Iran and Syria.

You remain silent as to the genocide of kurds. This is why you are challenged. You have zero credibility because your words time and time again on this forum reflect a selective attack only on Israel as being racist when it does nothing more In its policies than orher states. You justify your selectivity by then posing subjective insults at Israel by posing them as facts. This is why I challenge your words as illogical, hateful and lacking in credibility. Their inconsistency alone renders them absurd.

in regards to 6, at no time have I or anyone else altered your quotes. Your quotes are on the forum and recorded for anyone to see. You have now made the accusation that posts 576 and 577 were altered. They were not. Continuing to make that accusation only further evidences when you make unsubstantiated allegations, when challenged on them, your response is to repeat them again with no proof. Repeating something you are unable to prove, over and over doesn't make them any more credible.

May I suggest you simply admit you made a mistake. You have made it clear you will not. That is your choice.

I am here to challenge your words when I think they are inaccurate, misrepresent what was said or contain comments I believe incite hatred.

That is it. I am not here to comment on you as a person. I am trying to limit my comments to yours and nothing else. if I have not that is my mistake.

 

There are arab republics and islamic states in the middle east, all over the place, literally. These posters on here are anti-semitic because they never protest these, only a jewish state. They really aren't worth the time or the effort but sometimes they are amusing when they spout jibba jabba like NEO ZIONIST HASBARA EUROPEAN RACIST HASBARA NEO CON ZIONIST NEO HASBARA GENOCIDE HASBARA NEO ZIONISTS in response to being proven wrong about a particular point.

Don't forget they have gone to the ends of the earth to defend the Islamic Republic of Iran, Ahmadinejad, Arafat, Nasrallah, Khamenei, HAMAS, Hezbollah etc. And they have said its fine to say "Death to Israel" and that its ok for the Islamic Republic of Iran to imprison and torture iranian jews for trying to flee the country. Their words are "they got what was coming to them" or something along those lines.

 

They are trolling you, its meant to throw you off balance and to distract other members from relevant points that refute their lies. They are hoping to draw you into a flame war so people will ignore the subject being discussed and drown in their jibba jabba. Just ignore them.

Example:

Me: The Mufti was friends with Hitler and Himmler and the mufti formed ss units and had thousands of jews killed in the holocaust.

Them: THE MUFTI WAS A BRITISH IMPLANT. ITS A ZIONIST AND BRITISH PLOT TO MAKE THE PALESTINIANS LOOK BAD HASBARA NEO ZIONIST HASBARA

Me: I repeat, the Mufti was friends with Hitler and Himmler and the mufti formed ss units and had thousands of jews killed in the holocaust

Them: MUFTI WAS BRITISH IMPLANT ENOUGH WITH YOUR NEO ZIONIST HASBARA HASBARA ISRAEL WILL DIE ZIONISTS EVIL HASBARA

Me:For the third time, I repeat, the Mufti was friends with Hitler and Himmler and the mufti formed ss units and had thousands of jews killed in the holocaust

Them NEO ZIONIST ENTITY STEALS ORCHARDS AND WATER HASBARA HASBARA NEO ZIONIST ETHNIC CLEANSING HASBARA BULLDOZES HOMES HASBARA

And then it goes back and forth like this for another 10 posts or so, and before you know it, the original post has been long forgotten by others, and the bot like responses become the focus.

 

Lol yes indeed.

 

100% false. The Israeli Arabs do not hold Palestinian passports.

and then rendered null & void by the UN in the 1990s.

 

I repeat- to offset your misinterpretations;

25% of Israelis are Palestinian citizens.

 

If you continue to deny the fact of misquoting then I'll continue to link to the evidence;
http:an //www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=353996&p=1063873776#post1063873776

I now advise you, again, to cease the personal attacks and to discuss the topic.

As a general question, how does Netanyahu's election gamble square with international law ? Which elements of his neo-apartheid gambit are prosecutable under Israeli and international law ?

 

Hey- UP the Mufti. He was a British appointment- nothing to do with the Palestinian street and the corny Zionist narrative which attempts to use him to link Palestinians with Hitler is a busted flush. Ignore that.

Your claim was that he wasn't appointed by the British. Are you prepared to retract that or are you going to further engage in the pro-Israel habit of history- twisting ?

 

He led revolts against the Brits and was outlawed by them, why did Palestinians follow him if he wasnt their leader and why Brits prosecuted him if he was their agent ?

He was but he was a Palestinian leader and answered to his ppl not the Brits, you dont expect British citizens to follow their leadership today right? so why are you so supprised that Islamic leader turned on them. none of what I said is a twist its all proven facts. he was appointed by them and then started to revolt.