[video=youtube;FWHzIt4A_oo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWHzIt4A_oo[/video] This is a very powerful video of what can happen when people reveal their lack of belief to family and friends who are religious. It resonated with me because my mom has used the "don't talk to me about it" line around me as well as telling me not to talk about it with other family members because it might cause a disruption. I'm pretty open about my lack of belief around friends and in the public, though, and I haven't faced any problems. But then again, I live in the very liberal Portland metro area. For many people raised in the Bible belt or other highly religious areas, this video probably will resonate a lot more.
This phenomenon is not limited to atheism. You see, one of the biggest problems of white western culture is this common core belief. Western people tend to believe that we all have to be the same and follow the same set of beliefs, opinions, and behaviors and (generally speaking) are intolerant of anything that doesn't fit within their paradigm. And while this may sound like a joke, it truly isn't, it's just that different groups and cultures can not agree on what to conform to. A truly tolerant and understand culture would not behave like this. They may not support him, but tolerance and respect should not be based on being the same as everyone else. Here's an example of what I mean of how it's not just limited to this area of society. Star Wars fans will ostracize a Star Trek fan from their groups for liking Star Trek. I am truly not making a joke here nor am I trying to be humorous even if it sounds humorous. I was actually banned from a Star Wars fan board for enjoying Star Trek as well. This is something that completely baffles me. I've also experienced a lot of bigotry for wearing glasses. I have a friend who is really overweight and I've seen complete strangers walk up to her and start insulting and berating her to no end because she's not skinny and we're all supposed to be skinny. Sigh, I wish this sort of thing would go the way of the Dodo. But it's not going to anytime soon.
When I was a small larvae, gestating in a Christian hive, I was told that you want to be tolerant of people of other opinions and be their buddies so that they will eventually change their minds. A lot of liberals today concluded that being tolerant of others doesn't mean winning them over, it means trying to destroy them for being "intolerant" instead of trying to win hearts and minds through righteous mediation. Just one of the many reasons why movements like atheism and gay rights are doomed in the long run, a lot of these people fundamentally misunderstand what tolerance means and their true colors will become apparent some day.
haven't watched the vid yet, but I did want to draw attention to your comments about your Mom. why is it okay for Christians to 'talk about it', but not okay for atheists? meantime, I feel lucky to reside in a country where announcing yourself a Christian is more likely to be social suicide
Just re-read my thread, it means to agree to disagree... here are some examples: Guy donated money to a traditional marriage campaign, in a state where gay civil unions have equal rights but aren't called marriages, so people destroy his career-- not agreeing to disagree. Saying you believe marriage means one man and one woman but you support equal legal rights for gay couples-- that is agreeing to disagree. Tolerance means it's perfectly fine to harm someone's pride by disagreeing with them but it's not supposed to go further than that. This is because tolerance doesn't mean agreement; if you agreed with them then tolerance would not be an issue. As soon as you start trying to destroy people for being "intolerant" that's not tolerance, that's nihilism.
Not bathing can be social suicide, so what? You really should never discuss politics or religion in polite company. If you're at a Town Meeting or on a Political Forum, that is one thing, for all the people there have come together for that reason. If you're just making conversation or at a social gathering it's boorish and you should simply refrain from doing it or even engaging in the conversation. It's a cliché that as soon as somebody says, "I'm a very honest/truthful/transparent person who just has to be themselves" that they're about to express an opinion that implies everyone else is an (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)
To be "honest" it's not. I mean, finding yourself at a party where one guy has just asked you about your relationship with Jee-HAY-sus, is what the phrase, "I dunno, so how about those Bears?" was invented for, yes?
the problem is that many Christians consider it perfectly acceptable to "talk about it", in whatever form that may take ... saying grace before a meal, adding "god will take care of him/her" when told of someone's ill health, telling small children they must believe in god, asking others to help raise money for 'missions', tsk-tsking behaviours which don't align with their dogma and saying it out loud, etc etc etc. if an atheist tried any of those - or rather a secular version of the same thing - around some of the seemingly moderate elderly Christians I know, there'd be hell to pay. they'd get all red in the face and weird, and quickly change the subject. it's almost worth doing, just to rattle those creaky old cages. after all, they've been subjecting atheist family and friends to their mumbo jumbo for decades
Generally, I just tell them I'm Jewish if they press the matter. Saying "god bless you" is as serious a statement of your personal beliefs as saying "you're a ******ed dummy" is real curse to eternal damnation.
in other words to be pro-choice, you can decide how you want to, but let other decide for themselves another example would be allowing others to marry even though you do not agree with it.. the minute you try to actively prevent the marriage you are being intolerant .
you miss the point. I'm not referring here to harmless platitudes, I'm talking of overt double standards, expressed via righteous indignation at the mere suggestion of open atheism. that is, friends or family who are openly disturbed by, and actively disdainful of, any attempt to express non-religious sentiments in places and situations where 'appropriate'. I know a family where the atheist adult children STILL play along with the elderly parents, and go to great lengths to shield the parents from not only their own atheism, but that of anyone who comes into contact with them (the parents) - to the point of being objectionable regarding the rights of others to be honest. whatever it takes to avoid having the parents' apparently fragile position threatened by 'otherness'. of course, these same parents parade their faith at every opportunity, without a minute's thought ever given to the comfort of those they subject to it. it would never occur to them that their superstition isn't universally regarded as special and good, and to be admired.
I notice you put "intolerant" in quotes, suggesting that you think the people being "destroyed" are not in fact being intolerant. People like the WBC, they are genuinely intolerant - they deserve to be thoroughly chastisted, I think you'll agree - but even then, I'm not sure "destroyed" is the word. I suspect you're exaggerating for effect. People like my work colleague who often praises god at the end of presentations and the like, and who has at times posted on Facebook about how evolution is stupid - he deserves at most a gentle ribbing and a few rolled eyes, and nobody has suggested any more. In short, I think you have us all wrong.
You have not been following the news in the US if you think this stuff is limited to a gentle ribbing. Leftists out here are totally belligerent.
I guess it's a local thing then. Definitely less so in Scotland. Then again, we are much more left-leaning to start with. I would go so far as to suggest that what you call leftists are really centrists. Wait, why did you switch from "atheists" to "leftists"? Apart from a reasonably strong correlation, they are in fact completely unrelated.
I have always been a bit confounded by such vehement reactions from theists to other's declarations of atheism. I think it has more to do with their own self image and inability to grasp a world view that does not rely on the "guidance" of their god, nor being "given" a set of morals, nor rely on that god's gift of "purpose", nor acceptance of promised immortality, nor a supernatural omnipotent/omniscient being watching over them. I was under the impression that theists gained strength from their belief, not fear and intolerance of those that do not share such belief with them. Surly they do not fear for their god? In which case that only leaves them to fear for their own belief.
Just moving across different threads I guess, I forget what each one is about sometimes and just respond out of context
Thank you for sharing this. This video resonated with me, and gave me great relief since I have recently admitted that I am an Agnostic. I confessed to my family two years ago that I wasn't Christian, and needless to say, this has been hard for them (and me). But I had lived most of my life pretending that I believed because I thought it was the right thing to do. I went through dark periods of my life because I didn't feel connected to God or Jesus Christ, but I assumed it was because I was broken. Although I quit practicing Christianity, I still felt that there was a God. However, I started questioning that belief when I became more educated in science and the creation of the Universe. Then the questions started pouring out. Then I saw a few Sam Harris videos. He asked the hard questions that I couldn't answer, and that was unsettling. Where's the evidence? Now, I know. And what I know is that I don't know. I don't know if there is a supreme being, and I feel so much relief in saying that. The chains are off, and I no longer carry the guilt and shame as I did during those years.
great post! I feel very bad for people who've been brainwashed to the point where they start to believe they're 'broken' if something doesn't sit right with the whole god picture. I'm glad you've managed to climb out from under such a dark shadow. More power to you
it's like a sports game to some, they "believe" in Christianity like they "believe" in their football or basketball team.... go team!
Look at it from a neutral viewpoint. I'd be willing to be both sides have belligerence. And trying to change a longstanding view, ie gay marriage, is nothing easy.
