How does capitalism have a happy ending?

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by apoState, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. Drago

    Drago Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Big difference between have and need. Capitalism doesn't create that, culture does.
     
  2. unrealist42

    unrealist42 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
    3,000
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    0
    People need culture. Without culture there would be no civilization.
    The largest export of the US by far is culture.
    Capitalism creates culture and exploits it for profit.
     
  3. Liberalis

    Liberalis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,432
    Likes Received:
    93
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Yet the "have-nots" in a capitalist society typically have more than the "haves" of other systems. Its all relative. If in 200 years the median income (in current dollars) is $200,000, and there are people in society making $80,000 per year, they would be considered poor in that society. But in retrospect, they are quite wealthy.
     
  4. Shanty

    Shanty New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,595
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Funny, because with the rise in college costs, the assumption would be that fewer people would opt to go to college.
     
  5. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    With Socialism to bailout Capitalism, like usual, everyone should be able to afford a happy ending.
     
  6. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree it is the response of society and government which creates the 'haves' and 'have-nots'. If a person enters a casino and bets their pay check and loses, they become a 'have-not'. If a person in the same casino finds some success or wins, they become a 'have'. In both cases it was not the fault of the casino. In our economy, we have winners and losers...'haves' and 'have-nots', and these societal outcomes are not the fault of the economy or capitalism.

    I suppose it boils down to the decisions we make in life...win some...lose some. Problem today is it seems the 'have-not' group is growing at an alarming rate...numbers so large that politicians pander to these groups for votes. Bottom line is people and business need to find their economic niche, no matter the path this takes them, and they will do just fine...
     
  7. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I never thought that our successes and happiness will be determined by how much money we earn...instead it's based on our decisions. For example, a person today earning $200K/year but spending >$200K/year is not going to necessarily be happy. The same person spending $100K/year and saving or investing $100K should be quite happy. How many Americans earning $35K-$50K drive newer cars, have larger homes than they need, spend on non-essentials like alcohol, tobacco, drugs, and gambling? If I was a hundred years younger and someone suggested I create a life...a happy life...based on $25K income, I would figure out how to achieve this. Based on some I would need to greatly sacrifice but if I do it right I'll be as happy as anyone...simply because our happiness every day stems from lots of things other than money. But how can we resist those TV ads telling us we can obtain a $35K truck and only pay $200/month on a lease? Or instead of buying a 1200 square foot home the creative financing allows us to get a 2500 square foot home for the same monthly payment as renting? Why should we go without jewelry, designer clothes, Starbucks, restaurant foods/drinks, entertainment, and travel when we can conveniently use one of our many credit cards? So if we earn $35K-$50K we can live like we earn $100K! And all of these decisions come at a price...
     
  8. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do you also believe that as car prices increase to $35K-$50K less cars are sold? They're so expensive today, for ordinary pieces of (*)(*)(*)(*), that people lease! Creative financing keeps it going and people fall for this...
     
  9. Liberalis

    Liberalis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,432
    Likes Received:
    93
    Trophy Points:
    48
    You have switched up cause and effect. College costs are rising because more people are opting to go to college--financed by loans that are nearly impossible not to get.
     
  10. Shanty

    Shanty New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,595
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Inflation is relatively low for cars... But, yes, the financing has a lot to do with it.
     
  11. unrealist42

    unrealist42 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
    3,000
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Compared to median income median car prices have risen 50% over the last decade.
    The only thing that keeps cars selling is that monthly financing cost has remained relatively the same because financing terms have doubled to six years.
     
  12. Shanty

    Shanty New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,595
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I am paying on my wife's loans, so I know the pitfalls, and benefits of the loans. I think that Federal loans should be a part of how to get colleges to lower their costs. Whether it's limiting the money loaned per credit hour, or some other lever, like only loaning to students at schools that meet a criterion for lower costs, might be ways to reduce those costs.
     
  13. Shanty

    Shanty New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,595
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It turns out, I'm wrong.

    Used car inflation is low, but new car inflation has been higher in recent years.
     
  14. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why do most people look at a $35K car and justify how to lease or whatever 7--10 year payment plan, etc. instead of rationalizing they should not spend more than $20K on transportation? Because of the creative and easy lease/financing, etc. people don't need to worry about inflation on cars. If they were smart, they would take steps to 'control' inflation as it relates to their lives by avoiding the spend-spend-spend mentality of most Americans and our government leaders...
     
  15. Liberalis

    Liberalis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,432
    Likes Received:
    93
    Trophy Points:
    48
    This makes sense. Banks create money when they create loans, and wherever that new money goes will result in price rises (or at the very least prices higher than they otherwise would have been). Car loans are one of the most common forms of loans that banks create. That new money thus pushes up prices of cars, as that is where it is funneled.
     
  16. ronmatt

    ronmatt New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    8,867
    Likes Received:
    158
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Isn't McDonalds already completely automated? Or do you mean to imply that those people walking around in the kitchen are conscious beings capable of independent thought and actions?
     
  17. PabloHoney

    PabloHoney New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That's not how that works. And if that was true cars would have seen rapid rises in prices, where as you can still buy cars for prices near what they were when I got my first car. I would suggest watching some financial market type videos on this subject. Reserve banking creates new money differently from what you described. Also, you don't understand the Fed can play around with required reserves to fight inflation.
     
  18. Liberalis

    Liberalis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,432
    Likes Received:
    93
    Trophy Points:
    48
    No silly, I understand that the Fed can play around with reserves and interest rates. Instead of being so arrogant, perhaps you should have actually looked at the data regarding new car prices. Guess what? You are wrong.

    According to the Consumer Price Index (CPI), the cost of a new car has increased by 46 percent since 1983. Many have criticized this as an underestimation. The U.S. Department of Energy also provides information about the costs of new cars, and their data show a much different picture. According to this government source, the price of a new car has increased by 188 percent in the past 30 years. In 1983, the average new car cost about $10,600. The average purchase price of a new car today is about $30,500.

    http://www.moneynews.com/MichaelCarr/CPI-inflation-car-govt/2013/07/10/id/514246/#ixzz3AlMfwSw5

    Did you buy your first car this year or something? Because if you actually bother to track prices of new cars, they are clearly increasing...somewhere between 46-188% over the past 30 years.
     

Share This Page