Christians, did Yahweh create evil?

1) The Deuteronomy verse does say "those who hate Me". Did you not read the verse you, yourself, just quoted? Go back and read it again.

2) Could you kindly provide the verse in Numbers so we could have a reasonable debate?

 

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


God is Reality, "he" forms the next frame of the world and all life must adapt or or face extinction.
Reality is the Creator.

 

Hahaaaa,...

Maybe.
But Reality DEMANDS all life must adapt to whatever Reality might do with the future that shall come.
If any species refuses, then it will become extinct.

That is why Reality is GOD.
God does not do what we want or would like.
Men must find some way to obey Realities or face the consequences.

That is The Truth.

 

what the (*)(*)(*)(*)?

- - - Updated - - -

so you chose not to answer my question? too hard, was it?

 

You aren't quoting the entire quote, you're cherry picking. Read it in context. If I said, "I am going to hit the child of this parent" and you claimed I said "I am going to hit this parent", then you are either intellectually dishonest or otherwise don't understand how the English language works.

I already did, look at my post. Or is that too hard of a task for you? It's in the very same post as the Deuteronomy quote, ffs.

 

The children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren hate God and have followed their fathers into idolatry. The verse is really an admonition for parents. Children will follow in your footsteps—whether you do good or evil—based upon your actions, but not necessarily your words. This is what the whole verse says. Don't be upset because the verse doesn't say what you want it to say.

Ah, OK. I see it.
Numbers is saying the exact same thing, and thus the meaning is the same. When children follow their parents and hate God just like their parents and their grandparents, the same thing happens.

 

Numbers 14. It doesn't. The context of this chapter is different to Exodus. Moses is speaking to God and arguing his (Moses) case for the people with God. He is using gods own words - Verse 17 'According as thou has spoken' - from Exodus. This is not new, but a repeat. In this case, if you know the Bible, God does not condemn the 'children'. It is the fathers who take the consequences of murmuring against God. Out of all the males who left Egypt only 2 will enter Canaan - Caleb and Joshua - because they were faithful. Not even Moses and Aaron, for another reason.

Original sin does not exist. Each man is responsible for his own sins. (Judaism) Makes more sense than original sin.

Deuteronomy 24 reference in context is talking about servants.

 

As you likely know..."evil" thoughts, actions, and people existed long before Christians adapted the mythologies of others into a new book. Which would mean evil existed BEFORE there was a Jesus to create it. Christians would never attribute negativity to their God or his Son, as they are only given credit for good stuff in their minds...and used to give reason for the evils humans commit because of them.

 

Probably the same reason that if you are gonna have a universe, you must have objects, and space between objects. For how could there be a universe, if you chose not to incorporate space? Space is necessary, and even god cannot create a universe and not use space. Even if the universe was just one big globe, for the globe to exist, it must be surrounded by space.

As soon as the concept for GOOD is created, with it arises the concept for BAD. We seem to exist in a duality. Up down, left right, good bad here there etc. Otherwise it would be an incoherent universe, and apparently god prefers coherence.

 

Wow, now this is hilarious. The verse doesn't say what you want it to say, which is why you've been cherry picking it for the past few posts and not quoting the entire thing. Don't think that posters haven't recognized your deceit in constantly picking apart quotes to make it seem like you have any semblance of an argument. Point out the EXACT PART of the quote where it says "God punishes the children of the parents FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS". It says God punishes children for the actions of their parents.

What! The verse from numbers specifically says who is punished and for what. It's the children being punished for the actions of the parents. Not once does it mention the actions of the children. You're intepreting it as God punishing those that continue to transgress God because otherwise, for you, it'd be immoral. Stop pretending like you have any other reason to mince the words.

Additionally, you are cherry picking what to argue from what post, and you are cherry picking quotes from posts to make it seem like they say something that they don't. You are trolling, and breaking the rules of this forum. In the beginning you asked me what evil actions God does. I named for you about five different things. You decided to confront one thing and ignore the rest, as if they don't exist.

Your intellectual honesty is quite pathetic.

 

Dude, the Bible clearly says what it says. I don't see how pointing out that Moses is just repeating the words of Gods from previously helps your case, but whatever. Secondly, dude. Really? What was the final plague of Egypt if not a punishment of children for what their parents did?

 

God created all the emotions and the mind states we can live [evil included, it's obvious].

Regarding why He made evil "available" for human beings is that He didn't want robots, but persons, individuals, with the notorious "free will".

But this is not enough, we should remind that the Bible tells us that God is similar to us, He's not a rational machine, but a person with emotions and also irrational. Hard to believe, but the real Creator is emotive and irrational in a similar way to how is a human being. He says that ...

Corollary: perfection can involve irrationality ... who says that perfection is rational? Only rational? If that was the case irrationality wouldn't exist ...

 

Okay....so ie would seem God created evil according to many here. So which version of "Evil" are we talking about?

It seems to me there are as many understandings of what constitutes evil as there are versions of Gods. Some Muslims do not see decapitation of Children as evil, some Christians do not see hatred of different people as evil, what constitutes evil?

 

I understand because I did the research and the homework, but I am just one person out of billions so my own personal understanding does not count for the vast majority of humanity who do not know the story.

I certainly believe that anyone else could understand if they really tried, as I am not special or superior in that way.

Plus I gave what the Bible tells so I do not know it as a FACT even though I do believe it to be a true accounting, and I do not understand everything as that was only a brief account of a long story.

Actually you asked a straight up question so I just gave the straight up answer as I understand it to be, HERE.

 

It helps a great deal. It means that it is only stated once, and then repeated by Moses.

Although I don't believe in this anyway, but as I read it this was not a punishment on the people of Egypt. It was a way of proving the god of the Israelites was stronger than the gods of the Egyptians.
Pharaoh relied on his god and his magicians. The Egyptian people were not punished for what they did - I don't remember them ever being asked about it - but what Pharaoh - their gods representative - did (or didn't do as it happens).

Finally. The subject we are talking about was relevant to the Hebrews and came into effect years after the Exodus when the commandments were given. Can you apply it retrospectively to the plagues? You can't apply a Law until it comes into effect.

 

Yes, it was stated by God previously. What is your point?

So random children were punished for the actions of one man. Wow, that makes it all the better

The subject we are talking about is if God punishes children for the actions of parents.

 

** shrugs **
If you don't want to believe that, that's on you. Your ability to understand the bible is quite interesting. You'd be the last person I'd recommend anyone to get biblical advice from.

I addressed all your points simply by attacking the foundation of all of them. I do this all the time. If I argue that your original premise is untrue, then the rest of your points become moot. Let me give you an example.


Main) All humanoid babies have wings.
1) With their wings, they can flutter about
2) Some babies wings move so quickly that they can seemingly fly suspended in air like humming birds
3) Some babies prefer to soar through the air like eagles.
4) Scientists believe that babies are made out of rubber, so just in case they fall from the air, they can bounce upon landing.
5) When babies lose their wings, that's when they become normal humans and grow up to be adults.


If I argue that humanoid babies do not have wings, then I eliminate all the points under the original premise. I do this to you a lot. It helps shorten my replies and get straight to the point.

 

Well, the god of the OT looks more like an imperfect human being than the creator of this universe. If god does exist, he sure as hell isn't what you imagine him to be. Man has given him human qualities, with many of those being undesirable qualities. And then man worships this (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*). He isn't worthy of any worship at all. A genuine god wouldn't put up with his ass for a nanosecond. So that image of god as given to us by the OT is utterly made up, fabricated, imagined. If when I die, I go before such a god, the first thing I will do is to punch him in his alcoholic big nose. For I was more of a moral being than he is. And with the rest of the moral men, we shall literally kick his ass into hell, where he belongs. But unlike him, we won't make him burn forever and ever. We will give him a second chance to wise up and be a good god for a change, and to grow up.

 

Seems to me like you just hate God.
Also, you being more moral is very debatable.

I can only imagine it now. If atheists had their own country and they were in the majority, would they:

1) Allow anyone to practice any religion they want?
2) Allow tax exemptions for mosques and churches?
3) Encourage tolerance to other people's faiths without mocking their beliefs?
4) Enforce rules on basic tenants?
5) Establish judges who make decisions based on their own interpretation of the law or someone else's interpretation of the law?
6) Allow tax exemptions for religious charity funds and shelters?

 

"Random people"...?

The Egyptians were enslaving the Jews who Moses wanted released and freed, weren't they???
That punishment was apparently a serious of steps directed at the release.
Seemed fair didn't it?

 

?
Reality creates a place where life can exist.
Life does exist.

That seems good.
What exactly is your complaint here?

Do you have a better Reality in mind, that one which here fits life like a glove in regards to survival.

 

?
Survival is the prime instinct for life and only those who will adapt to the Force or Reality will remain and avoid extinction.

Extinction occurs when whole societies and species disappear.
Neanderthal man disappeared as Modern man flooded out of Africa 40,000 years ago.
That is the Truth about Reality.

What is your complaint,... that Neanderthal man isn't around nor the dinosaurs???

 

All 3 have a different context.

 

but that's precisely what you are saying. that you're special because you really tried.

 

the reality already exists, and the most atheist countries happen to be the top 10 countries for quality of life. you need to travel, or at least catch up with the 21st century. first port of call, Scandinavia. You might also try Australia, New Zealand, Japan, or Canada.

and FTR, we (in the above mentioned atheist majority countries) tolerate your superstitions 100%. no one is prevented from attending church or mosque or temple. I suspect you mean 'venerate' when you say tolerate, though, as most Christians do. If you want faith venerated unquestioningly, move to an Islamic state. As for your bizarre notion of teaching people not to mock beliefs - that idea belongs in grade school.