Subject: THIS IS WHAT OTHER IMPORTANT PEOPLE THINK OF THE JEWS..

pray so.. we sure dont need a great Syria or Turkey

 

I apologise for my hate facts. All criticism of Jewish organised crime can only be based on irrational hate. We don't really have an equivalent word for chutzpah in English. Would accusing others of one's own faults be covered by that term?

 

"this has been well discredited... your dream is a fallacy.."
Instead of using evidence or addressing anything I said in what you quoted this is your response to overwhelming evidence that Sharon was a war criminal. If you are going to debate actually use facts and evidence.
I used many several sources like UN observers during 1950's and Jordanian pathologists for unit 101's raids, David Ben Gurion describing Sharon as a great soldier if he didn't have the habitat of lying in his reports. In the case of 1971 Bedouin expulsion this was described by Israeli Clinton Bailey expert on Bedouins and served in the army in the Sinai during the expulsion with army spokesperson admitting that case is recorded in its history department(this is the case where 40 elderly, babies, and children die does that matter to you? by every definition that would be considered terrorism and yet he was elected pm) .

 

Netanyahu's ultimate goal seems to stay in office whatever the cost(including removing reforms regarding situation with haredi which has angered both left and right causing narrow gov that won't last to form) and keeping the status quo. Greater Israel would destroy Israel as Jewish democratic state why would you pray for that?

 

Oh yes there is more than one that I can throw back at the duplicitous Brits...
Gall, nerve, cockle, fret, bait, cecidium, gaw, annoyance, impudence... Brits usually accuse others of their own malfeasance.

 

You did do a hateful anti semitic post that including shamefully blaming Jews for world war 2. Your post reminds me of the Russian anti semitic Elders of Zion.

 

Not as much as the Jews.

- - - Updated - - -

Jews weren't to blame for WW2?

 

Baloney we have explained that on several occasions with documented facts printed in the book <The Israeli Solution> by Carolyn B. Glick page 174 onward.

The only thing that peeks me is the fact that a trickle of Haredi Jews have joined the IDF under the guise of Torah learning... All is good and well as Israel should give these people 4 years to finish their studies and no more, then join the IDF... I, personally am tired to carry all these non productive fellas as an Albatross around my neck and the necks of millions of Israelis.

 

I have refuted the study you have referred to. Will repeat it again.

"The demographic study I cited uses Israel's central bureau of statistics for Israeli population. 2.7 million is believed to live in the West Bank. The American Israel demographic research group claims 1.5 million live there. That goes against most sources with CIA world factbook placing the population of West Bank at 2.7 million. A 2005 state department report states 2.4 million live in the West Bank. The Israeli civil administration in the West Bank in 2012 put population of West Bank at 2,657,029. Arnon Soffer a geographer of Haifa university and demographer Sergio Della Pergola of Hebrew University in Jerusalem both disagree with AIRDG saying

"Without a partition deal, Jews will eventually become a minority because of higher Arab population growth, said demographer Sergio Della Pergola of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and Arnon Soffer, a geographer at Haifa University."

"if Israel gives up most of the West Bank, it can assure a Jewish majority at home &#8220;for eternity,&#8221; Soffer said.

On the other hand, Della Pergola said, keeping the West Bank means &#8220;you must give up on a Jewish state.&#8221;

The American-Israel Demographic Research Group, a private initiative led by Yoram Ettinger, a former Israeli consul in Texas, claims Palestinians in the West Bank number only about 1.5 million &#8212; or about 1 million less than the Palestinian count.

Ettinger&#8217;s group alleges that two Palestinian censuses, of 2007 and 1997, were flawed. He argued that in 1997, Palestinian demographers counted some 325,000 Palestinian emigres and presumed large-scale immigration that didn&#8217;t materialize.

Ola Awad, the chief Palestinian demographer, said the 2007 census was based on a detailed head count, with advice from the UN and Norway. Anders Thomsen of the UN Population Fund backed her up, saying the census was &#8220;done according to international standards,&#8221; with support by his and other UN agencies.

Yacov Faitelson, a member of Ettinger&#8217;s group, also argued that Arab fertility is falling in much of the region while Jewish fertility &#8212; already exceptionally high for a developed country with three children per woman &#8212; is on the upswing.

Della Pergola said he factored declining Arab fertility rates into his forecasts, and charged that his critics ignore that Palestinian society is younger, with more people of reproductive age.

Soffer was coauthor of the tricky million person gap which showed 21 flawed assumptions of AIRDG.

I did read the Israeli solution and noted during the 1990's it was predicted that by 2015 there would not be a Jewish majority between Mediterranean Sea and Jordan river. That prediction seems to have been close since I have shown using Israeli central bureau statistics for Israeli population with 1.7 million Palestinians in Gaza and 2.7 million in West Bank(which is reflected by other sources beside Palestinian bureau of statistics like US state department, CIA world factbook, and Israeli civil administration in the West Bank) that 50% are Jewish. "
http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41723.htm
http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-israel-the-demographic-issue-gains-resonance/
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.532703
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/02/population-israelpalestine-projected

Text of haaretz article cited
In May 2012, the Palestinian population of the West Bank stood at 2,657,029, according to a Civil Administration document obtained by Haaretz. In addition, the document points out, there has been a 29 percent rise in the Palestinian population since the year 2000.

However, over the past few years, a fierce battle has taken place over the number of Palestinians living in the territories.

The American-Israel Demographic Research Group has been trying for eight years to prove that the Palestinians have managed, with great sophistication, to inflate their true population by 1 million people, and that the real figure currently stands at about 1.5 million people.

The group's claims are not corroborated by demographic experts in Israel and around the world, but Israeli right-wing activists and politicians have adopted them, including Economy Minister and Habayit Hayehudi chairman Naftali Bennett, MK Tzipi Hotovely (Likud) and former defense minister and foreign minister Moshe Arens.

Right-wing activists say that if there are only 1.5 million Palestinians in the West Bank, there is no "threat" to Israel's demography &#8211; referring to the state's desire to maintain a Jewish majority &#8211; and no need to launch negotiations over a Palestinian state. Instead, they say, it's time to talk about annexing Palestinian territories and their residents to Israel.

Hotovely says that in the long term Israel can naturalize all West Bank Palestinians and still remain a Jewish state, and Bennett's views are similar. "There are 1.5 million Palestinians in the West Bank and 400,000 settlers, and nobody's going anywhere," Bennett recently said in an interview with the Washington Post.

The American-Israel Demographic Research Group is led by former diplomat Yoram Ettinger. The team responsible for the data includes Los Angeles businessman Bennett Zimmerman, historian Roberta Seid and physicist Michael L. Wise.

The group published its first paper in 2005 in what was seen as a move to block the Gaza pullout by disputing the accepted demographic figures. The paper contests the Palestinian Authority's censuses of both 1997 and 2007.

These censuses were the only ones held in the West Bank and Gaza since 1967 and were supervised by the Norwegian government. Based on these studies and figures from the Palestinians, the Israel Defense Forces, the United Nations and the Shin Bet security service, the Palestinian population in the West Bank is usually estimated at between 2.6 million and 2.7 million.

But according to the American-Israeli group these numbers are distorted. First, the group says these numbers include 300,000 Arab residents of East Jerusalem, which Israel counts as Israeli Arabs. Second, the group says Palestinian demographers include people who left the West Bank many years ago. Third, it says figures for population growth don't jibe.

"These are not necessarily lies," Ettinger said. "But the Palestinians count differently. The problem isn't them; the problem is with those who accept their data without checking. For example, in the matter of the births there's a very imprecise fact there, to say the least."

The group points to the decline in the Arab birthrate throughout the Middle East. According to Ettinger, the birthrate of Jewish women in Israel is higher now than that of women in neighboring countries.

"What this group is doing borders on crime, it's a macro deception," said Prof. Arnon Soffer, a geography professor and a severe critic of the American-Israel Demographic Research Group . A 2004 meeting between Soffer and then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was considered a milestone in Sharon's decision to embark on the Gaza disengagement.

In 2007, Soffer co-wrote an article called "The Tricky Million-Person Gap." According to the piece, all 21 assumptions of the American-Israeli group are flawed.

"Take for example the issue of mortality," Soffer told Haaretz. "The Jewish population has the normal number of elderly compared to the rest of the world. The Arab population does not have as many elderly people and so the mortality rate is lower." Among Israeli Jews, six people die annually out of every 1,000, compared with 2.5 in the Arab community, Soffer says.

"The members of the group also say that every year between 60,000 and 80,000 people leave the country. So if we're patient, in a few years the last Arab will turn off the light," Soffer said.

"Believe me, I've been at all the border crossings and there is no such thing. It's nonsense. They also claim that the figure of 400,000 Palestinians living abroad should be subtracted. But what about the number of Israelis living in New York?"

The debate boils down to whether there is a Jewish majority between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. According to Ettinger, Jews make up 66 percent of the population between the river and the sea. And due to the change in birthrates, this majority is stable. "There is no Arab time bomb, there is a Jewish tailwind," he said.

According to Soffer, there are 6.2 million Jews and others in Israel, 1.7 million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and 2.5 million Palestinians in the West Bank. There are 1.6 million Israeli Arabs, not including Druze. Thus there are 5.8 million Arabs and 6.2 million Jews between the Jordan and the Mediterranean.

Soffer also talks about 60,000 people who have entered Israel illegally, 120,000 tourists who have outstayed their visas, and 300,000 Palestinians who have entered Israel since 1967 and live here, as well as foreign workers. "We are now 49 percent between the Jordan and the sea," Soffer says.

"If this were an academic debate, it wouldn't be worth my while to deal with [the group]," Soffer said. "But suddenly Bogie [Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon] tells me we don't have a demographic problem."

According to Dr. Assaf Sharon, academic director at Molad, a left-wing think tank, "The debate over the future of the territories is important enough to hold based on real facts and data. The so-called facts in the ideological right wing's strategy are baseless. Rightists forget that a lie repeatedly told does not become the truth. The annexation of the territories means a binational state. You can be for or against it, but you can't deny it."

 

I take it you haven't heard of WW1, Versailles. Anyone who blames Jews for WW2 or believes in anti Semitic crap like Elders of Zion can't be taken seriously.

 

So you will just assert I'm "ignorant" and simply assert the opposite of what I question?

 

again.. the propaganda you are trying to run here has already been debunked..

 

Your post shows such ignorance that Im unsure why its allowed

 

Your "opinion" is nothing more than "your opinion"..

I for some reaoin dont think I will find you railing on Assads killing of 200,000 people in Syria.. a massacre of incredible proportion.. Assad killed more innocent people this week then Sharon ever did, after being attacked from Lebanon

do youy cry for those victims?... I will guess no.. because your narrative is to libel Jews as "aggressors" and "killers"

 

How has it been debunked? Your response to overwhelming evidence(again in what you quoted from me in the last post I pointed out that I used many sources like UN observers and Jordanian pathologists during 1950's and also Israeli sources like David Ben Gurion noting that Sharon would be a great soldier if he didn't have the habitat of constantly lying and Israel's military admitting Bedouin expulsion case is recorded by their history department) of Sharon being a war criminal is that I"m wrong with absolutely no evidence to back it up.

 

this is a very old story....and obviously is MOOT to all but Jew haters..and anti Israel people...

but Assad has killed 200,000 innocent people and not a word...

hahaha..UN observers = anti Israel kooks.. the UN is a sesspool of despots and tyrants.. who ya foolin? was Hilter not available for you to quote?

Your desperation to beleive anything anti Sharon is on full display.. Im sure you are losing sleep that he was not brought to hang at the Hague..

 

A typical Guardian distortion about Ariel Sharon and Sabra/Shatila massacre
BY GUEST/CROSS POST ON JANUARY 14, 2014 • ( 104 COMMENTS )
5 Votes

Cross posted from The Commentator with the expressed permission of their publisher, Robin Shepherd

There is obviously nothing funny about the 1982 massacre in Lebanon of hundreds of mainly Muslim Palestinians at the hands of an Arab Christian militia at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps.

But, since practically the entire world has blamed the incident on Israel and one Ariel Sharon, it is hard not to chuckle at the way he once characterised the situation following his removal as defence minister, not for carrying out the massacre of course, but for not doing enough to prevent a massacre carried out by others.

“I’m the only minister of defence in the world — the only one — who left his post and went back to work on a tractor, on his farm, as a result of what Christians did to Muslims. The only one.”

It’s so true, and so piercing because it cuts down to size the flat-out liars who have always blamed him for something he just didn’t do. It can even get as absurd as this nasty little lie slipped into today’s editorial in the Guardian, without question the most bigoted British newspaper when it comes to matters Israeli.

“In 1982, serving as defence minister, he allowed Christian Phalangists into the Palestinian camps of Sabra and Shatila, where they massacred more than 700 men, women and children. An Israeli government inquiry concluded that Mr Sharon bore personal responsibility for the incident,” the paper, which is the house journal of the BBC said.

The only way to make sense of this garbage is to conclude that Sharon must have ordered the Phalangists to do it — which obviously he didn’t — or that he was clairvoyant — which obviously he wasn’t; and knew in advance exactly what was going to happen.

The lie is doubled up with reference to the Israeli government report which simply says he was responsible for not doing enough to stop the incident, not that he actually bore responsibility for what took place. That’s why he and several others were held to have had a measure of indirectresponsibility, but not to have been responsible for the incident itself.

In other words, the truth is the exact opposite of what the Guardian says it is. And they know it.

The Guardian also knows that less than 1 percent of readers will drill down to get to the truth; and in spreading outright lies, a 99 percent success rate is good enough for them. It’s all done of course to discredit, by association, Israel as a whole, because mud sticks.
http://ukmediawatch.org/2014/01/14/...about-ariel-sharon-and-sabrashatila-massacre/
snip...

 

Why does it matter when it take place? War crimes don't have a statute of limitations and no matter when it took place it doesn't change the fact that Sharon committed those crimes.UN(I never said I cared much for UN with several flaws like China and Russia being part of security council with veto power despite massive human right violations) observers(they were part of Jordan-Israel mixed armistice commission which monitored ceasefire lines and complaints between two sides) is a reliable source their account was corroborated with Jordanian pathologists nor does Sharon's word carry much meaning when Israel's foundering father and first prime minister said he would be a great soldier if he didn't lie in his military reports. Qibya wasn't the only incident that made him a war criminal. In the bureij refugee camp attack was described as grenades thrown at refugee huts and smalls arms fire used against those who tried to flee. In the Bureij raid one of the soldiers that took part in it asked ""is this screaming, whimpering multitude the enemy?".
https://books.google.com/books?id=w...page&q=unit 101 whimpering multitude&f=false
http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/017eefb458011c9d05256722005e5499

One of the soldiers in Unit 101 refused to take part in a raid against civilian population saying
"An ex palmach who believed in the purity of arms he refused to participate in an expedition directed not against enemy soldiers but against the civilian population. Arik [Sharon's nickname] did not force him to take part. In a heated discussion, Shlomo Baum [Sharon's adjutant] hurled a remark at him:"There is no pure or impure arms; there are only clean weapons that work when you need them and dirty weapons that jam the moment you fire"
"Sharon rejected the soldier's argument and told his men that the women of the camp were whores who served the infiltrators."
https://books.google.com/books?id=b...&q=dead women were camp whore sharon&f=false

In the last case I discussed the expulsion of Bedouin in Sinai this comes from an Israeli source, Israeli expert on Bedouin that served as a soldier in the Sinai during the incident. In addition the Israeli military admits that case is recorded in their history department. Will post link to that article again.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...on-ordered-the-expulson-of-3000-Bedouins.html


When did I ever say I support Assad or when did I ever say Sharon was worse than Assad who has used chemical weapons against civilians? How does someone's else actions give another person a license to kill civilians? Again your response against my overwhelming evidence that Sharon was a war criminal due to several incidents where civilian were massacred(or in case of bedouin expulsion led to deaths of civilians, expulsion was carried during middle of night when sand was freezing with limited time to prepare or pack to leave, it's why the dead mainly constituted of segments of population like elderly and children) is that I"m wrong with no evidence to back it up.

 

what part of "there was no war crime that Sharon was responsible for" are you not getting?.... you simply are desperate to libel this hero...

you want to conflate issues and feign that you are " objective"...Im not buying it..

 

Give it up. There is no room for those kind of facts in this circle jerk thread. The best thing to do is sit back and watch people like the OP expose themselves as racial supremacists as they proceed to tell you about how the Jews are the greatest ethnicity to ever live. "God's chosen" and all that. And then wonder why people have a problem with them. Must be everybody else, huh? They will call you anti-semitic for being anti-supremacist.

 

the Jews forced Hitler to invade Poland, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Russia, Ukraine, France, Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, Denmark, and attack Britain?

lol!!!

 

Here the intelectualist Eric Hoffer prises the Jews how you, in my opinion, can't do it. Well, you see e.g. today what do they do with other not-jewish nations. They're destroing palestinian hospitals or kindergardens. When after all s.o. says about them, they're more Christian than we or sth. similar, the person isn't true. In Poland there were much times Jews, who controlled the banks and the Jews had often decided to defraud. So prising Jews with intelectualist's citates isn't good.

 

Yes, it was prooved.

 

never proved

 

Prooved, but the problem is that the documents aren't in English.