I'm a gun owner and I carry a gun, but obviously we need better gun control.

ObamacareFail · Aug 2, 2015

Yepimonfire said: ↑

I own guns, carry guns, like guns, strongly support the 2nd Ammendment etc. but we need stronger background checks, and I'm most certainly in favor of registration that happens at the time of purchase. Let's be realistic, nobody is just going to come take all your guns if they're registered. Do people come take your car? That's registered..
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Tell that to the brits.

Except for sporting guns, theirs were confiscated. We do not need registration, we just need to enforce the existing laws Tougher background checks are goofy when we do not even enforce the background checks already on the books. Laws do not work if they are not enforced.Right now we have a serious problem. Felons who have been convicted continue getting a hold of guns. Just the other day there was a shooting in the major metro I live in that involved a felon who had ALREADY BEEN CONVICTED. How'd he get the gun? Obviously not legally, but nobody can possibly know if we don't have a clear paper trail for the guns. If it were registered at the time of manufacture with the serial number, information sent over about who purchased it for retail sale, registered at the time of sale etc. we would know who was responsible for it last. It's obviously illogical to believe gun control will prevent all crime, but it's no surprise that people who shouldn't have guns keep getting them, and until we have a way to track that down it's going to continue to happen. Felons will keep getting guns and keep shooting people.
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And felons will continue to get guns...whether it's through buying them illegally at a gun store or out of the trunk of someone's car. The problem is not the guns...it is the felons. We have a revolving door criminal justice system. Most felons are back on the street before the ink is dry on their arrest reports. If we really want to deal with the problem with felons committing violent crimes, we need to pass truth in sentencing laws. If a violent convict is sentenced to 20 years, he should serve 20 years...good behavior in prison or not. No parole for violent crimes. We should make a violent felon not want to return to prison after he serves his sentence. Until we address the issue of violent felons becoming repeat offenders, we will continue to have repeat offenders.

I agree, things like assault weapons bans will do nothing to curb gun crime, as most criminals are using cheap handguns or shotguns. It's time for common sense gun control. The data doesn't lie. Countries with registration, strong bg checks etc just don't have the gun crime we do, and most certainly don't have anywhere near the violent crime we do. Even with other weapons. Just look at the crimes per 100,000 of a big city like London compared to the crime per 100,000 in somewhere like Atlanta. In 2012 there was an intentional homicide rate in London of 1.67, vs. 19 in Atlanta. That's very significant. In other countries, like Nordic countries where gun ownership is high, but registration exists, such as Zurich, Switzerland, where the gun ownership rate is nearly half as high as ours, it's still significantly lower, with robberies, murders, and other violent crimes involving a weapon ranking Very Low on numbeo.
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But then those countries do not have the revolving door criminal justice system that we have.

I'm also in favor of training requirements for carry permits. Back when I lived in Tennessee, we had to go through a class that basically taught us when self defense was lawful and when it wasn't, basic gun safety, what to do after a self-defense shooting, it also covered things like making sure you had a clear shot, and even required you to pass a target training session, you had to know how to hit what you're shooting at, and you wouldn't believe (over half the class actually) how many people initially failed the target shooting requirements. They definitely could hit where they were aiming before the class was over though.
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But then that should be left up to individual states, not the federal government.

Nightmare515 · Aug 2, 2015

Yepimonfire said: ↑

I own guns, carry guns, like guns, strongly support the 2nd Ammendment etc. but we need stronger background checks, and I'm most certainly in favor of registration that happens at the time of purchase. Let's be realistic, nobody is just going to come take all your guns if they're registered. Do people come take your car? That's registered. Right now we have a serious problem. Felons who have been convicted continue getting a hold of guns. Just the other day there was a shooting in the major metro I live in that involved a felon who had ALREADY BEEN CONVICTED. How'd he get the gun? Obviously not legally, but nobody can possibly know if we don't have a clear paper trail for the guns. If it were registered at the time of manufacture with the serial number, information sent over about who purchased it for retail sale, registered at the time of sale etc. we would know who was responsible for it last. It's obviously illogical to believe gun control will prevent all crime, but it's no surprise that people who shouldn't have guns keep getting them, and until we have a way to track that down it's going to continue to happen. Felons will keep getting guns and keep shooting people.

I agree, things like assault weapons bans will do nothing to curb gun crime, as most criminals are using cheap handguns or shotguns. It's time for common sense gun control. The data doesn't lie. Countries with registration, strong bg checks etc just don't have the gun crime we do, and most certainly don't have anywhere near the violent crime we do. Even with other weapons. Just look at the crimes per 100,000 of a big city like London compared to the crime per 100,000 in somewhere like Atlanta. In 2012 there was an intentional homicide rate in London of 1.67, vs. 19 in Atlanta. That's very significant. In other countries, like Nordic countries where gun ownership is high, but registration exists, such as Zurich, Switzerland, where the gun ownership rate is nearly half as high as ours, it's still significantly lower, with robberies, murders, and other violent crimes involving a weapon ranking Very Low on numbeo.

I'm also in favor of training requirements for carry permits. Back when I lived in Tennessee, we had to go through a class that basically taught us when self defense was lawful and when it wasn't, basic gun safety, what to do after a self-defense shooting, it also covered things like making sure you had a clear shot, and even required you to pass a target training session, you had to know how to hit what you're shooting at, and you wouldn't believe (over half the class actually) how many people initially failed the target shooting requirements. They definitely could hit where they were aiming before the class was over though.
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My bold.

Guns and cars are two different things. If the government officials and many others in the country kept advocating we ban all V8 powered cars every time someone balls one up on the highway then I wouldn't register my V8 mustang sitting in the garage.

Many in the government and many in society don't believe I should be allowed to own my AK-47's and AR-15s. Many have actively tried to push laws to prohibit me from owning such weapons. They have come on multiple news shows, held press conferences, held rallies, staged protests, etc in order to ban these types of weapons. We aren't being hysterical here or paranoid. They have actively tried to gain support to pass laws taking these weapons away and they make no secret about it. Some elected officials even take matters into their own hands and pull stunts such as the New York Legislature completely bypassing the states mandatory 3 day law review period and passing, in the Governor's own words, "the toughest gun law in the country" in the middle of the night. The Governor then signed the bill into law completely aware of and in support of the stunt they all pulled.

How am I as a law abiding citizen supposed to trust officials who act like that? If they pulled that stunt without any sort of remorse under a "message of necessity" then what's to stop them from doing the same thing again in regards to certain firearms themselves? What's to stop them from secretly signing into law a "Safe Act part 2" in the middle of the night that prohibits and makes illegal the possession of their definition of "assault weapons" at all? The reason they got away with pulling that stunt is because for one it's NY, and two they rode the hysteria and outcry from Sandy Hook and passed the bill in the midst of the chaos that ensued.

There plenty of elected officials on the federal level who would absolutely pull the same stunt that NY did if they could get away with it. Get enough of those types of people in the federal government and such things can quickly become a very real reality. These random public shootings keep happening and it gives these types of officials even more fuel for their fire. If this keeps up it's only a matter of time before emotion overrides reason and more states pull the stunt that NY did. Using the justification of keeping people safe. The only defense the public has against such people are unregistered firearms. You can't take what you can prove we have. Create a national gun registration database allowing the federal government to know exactly what everyone has in their house leaves the citizens completely defenseless if they passed another assault weapon ban.

Depending on who you ask such firearms restrictions are Unconstitutional. Millions of citizens believe that. Take away unregistered guns and then implement a specific type of weapons ban and you have just trumped the Constitutional rights that millions of citizens believe they have. And you have taken away their only ability to combat it. No thank you, way too many American's are on the other side of the fence on this issue.

No thank you.

Turtledude · Aug 2, 2015

Yepimonfire said: ↑

I own guns, carry guns, like guns, strongly support the 2nd Ammendment etc. but we need stronger background checks, and I'm most certainly in favor of registration that happens at the time of purchase. Let's be realistic, nobody is just going to come take all your guns if they're registered. Do people come take your car? That's registered. Right now we have a serious problem. Felons who have been convicted continue getting a hold of guns. Just the other day there was a shooting in the major metro I live in that involved a felon who had ALREADY BEEN CONVICTED. How'd he get the gun? Obviously not legally, but nobody can possibly know if we don't have a clear paper trail for the guns. If it were registered at the time of manufacture with the serial number, information sent over about who purchased it for retail sale, registered at the time of sale etc. we would know who was responsible for it last. It's obviously illogical to believe gun control will prevent all crime, but it's no surprise that people who shouldn't have guns keep getting them, and until we have a way to track that down it's going to continue to happen. Felons will keep getting guns and keep shooting people.

I agree, things like assault weapons bans will do nothing to curb gun crime, as most criminals are using cheap handguns or shotguns. It's time for common sense gun control. The data doesn't lie. Countries with registration, strong bg checks etc just don't have the gun crime we do, and most certainly don't have anywhere near the violent crime we do. Even with other weapons. Just look at the crimes per 100,000 of a big city like London compared to the crime per 100,000 in somewhere like Atlanta. In 2012 there was an intentional homicide rate in London of 1.67, vs. 19 in Atlanta. That's very significant. In other countries, like Nordic countries where gun ownership is high, but registration exists, such as Zurich, Switzerland, where the gun ownership rate is nearly half as high as ours, it's still significantly lower, with robberies, murders, and other violent crimes involving a weapon ranking Very Low on numbeo.

I'm also in favor of training requirements for carry permits. Back when I lived in Tennessee, we had to go through a class that basically taught us when self defense was lawful and when it wasn't, basic gun safety, what to do after a self-defense shooting, it also covered things like making sure you had a clear shot, and even required you to pass a target training session, you had to know how to hit what you're shooting at, and you wouldn't believe (over half the class actually) how many people initially failed the target shooting requirements. They definitely could hit where they were aiming before the class was over though.
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any gun owner who supports the holy grail of the gun banner movement (registration) is either too stupid to own a gun or is not truthful about being a gun owner.

Xenamnes · Aug 2, 2015

Yepimonfire said: ↑

Because, if we don't know how they are getting them we can't cut them off. There is obviously some avenue, legal or not, that they're going through.
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So if you find out a firearm has been stolen, possibly after the legal owner was murdered, you are confident that you can prevent a future theft from being committed?

MRogersNhood · Aug 2, 2015

Turtledude said: ↑

any gun owner who supports the holy grail of the gun banner movement (registration) is either too stupid to own a gun or is not truthful about being a gun owner.
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So true.

Wolverine · Aug 3, 2015

Yepimonfire said: ↑

I own guns, carry guns, like guns, strongly support the 2nd Ammendment etc. but we need stronger background checks, and I'm most certainly in favor of registration that happens at the time of purchase. Let's be realistic, nobody is just going to come take all your guns if they're registered. Do people come take your car? That's registered. Right now we have a serious problem. Felons who have been convicted continue getting a hold of guns. Just the other day there was a shooting in the major metro I live in that involved a felon who had ALREADY BEEN CONVICTED. How'd he get the gun? Obviously not legally, but nobody can possibly know if we don't have a clear paper trail for the guns. If it were registered at the time of manufacture with the serial number, information sent over about who purchased it for retail sale, registered at the time of sale etc. we would know who was responsible for it last. It's obviously illogical to believe gun control will prevent all crime, but it's no surprise that people who shouldn't have guns keep getting them, and until we have a way to track that down it's going to continue to happen. Felons will keep getting guns and keep shooting people.

I agree, things like assault weapons bans will do nothing to curb gun crime, as most criminals are using cheap handguns or shotguns. It's time for common sense gun control. The data doesn't lie. Countries with registration, strong bg checks etc just don't have the gun crime we do, and most certainly don't have anywhere near the violent crime we do. Even with other weapons. Just look at the crimes per 100,000 of a big city like London compared to the crime per 100,000 in somewhere like Atlanta. In 2012 there was an intentional homicide rate in London of 1.67, vs. 19 in Atlanta. That's very significant. In other countries, like Nordic countries where gun ownership is high, but registration exists, such as Zurich, Switzerland, where the gun ownership rate is nearly half as high as ours, it's still significantly lower, with robberies, murders, and other violent crimes involving a weapon ranking Very Low on numbeo.

I'm also in favor of training requirements for carry permits. Back when I lived in Tennessee, we had to go through a class that basically taught us when self defense was lawful and when it wasn't, basic gun safety, what to do after a self-defense shooting, it also covered things like making sure you had a clear shot, and even required you to pass a target training session, you had to know how to hit what you're shooting at, and you wouldn't believe (over half the class actually) how many people initially failed the target shooting requirements. They definitely could hit where they were aiming before the class was over though.
Click to expand...

Registered guns were later confiscated in other countries, so how do you arrive at the conclusion that registration =/= confiscation?

How many politicians have made a business of banning cars? How many politicians have done so with firearms? So given that we both know the answer, how do you arrive at the conclusion that comparing the imaginary prohibition of cars to the very real and ongoing attempts to prohibit firearms?

Bastiats libertarians · Aug 3, 2015

Registration eventually leads to confiscation. End of discussion.

Kal'Stang · Aug 3, 2015

Yepimonfire said: ↑

I own guns, carry guns, like guns, strongly support the 2nd Ammendment etc. but we need stronger background checks, and I'm most certainly in favor of registration that happens at the time of purchase. Let's be realistic, nobody is just going to come take all your guns if they're registered. Do people come take your car? That's registered. Right now we have a serious problem. Felons who have been convicted continue getting a hold of guns. Just the other day there was a shooting in the major metro I live in that involved a felon who had ALREADY BEEN CONVICTED. How'd he get the gun? Obviously not legally, but nobody can possibly know if we don't have a clear paper trail for the guns. If it were registered at the time of manufacture with the serial number, information sent over about who purchased it for retail sale, registered at the time of sale etc. we would know who was responsible for it last. It's obviously illogical to believe gun control will prevent all crime, but it's no surprise that people who shouldn't have guns keep getting them, and until we have a way to track that down it's going to continue to happen. Felons will keep getting guns and keep shooting people.

I agree, things like assault weapons bans will do nothing to curb gun crime, as most criminals are using cheap handguns or shotguns. It's time for common sense gun control. The data doesn't lie. Countries with registration, strong bg checks etc just don't have the gun crime we do, and most certainly don't have anywhere near the violent crime we do. Even with other weapons. Just look at the crimes per 100,000 of a big city like London compared to the crime per 100,000 in somewhere like Atlanta. In 2012 there was an intentional homicide rate in London of 1.67, vs. 19 in Atlanta. That's very significant. In other countries, like Nordic countries where gun ownership is high, but registration exists, such as Zurich, Switzerland, where the gun ownership rate is nearly half as high as ours, it's still significantly lower, with robberies, murders, and other violent crimes involving a weapon ranking Very Low on numbeo.

I'm also in favor of training requirements for carry permits. Back when I lived in Tennessee, we had to go through a class that basically taught us when self defense was lawful and when it wasn't, basic gun safety, what to do after a self-defense shooting, it also covered things like making sure you had a clear shot, and even required you to pass a target training session, you had to know how to hit what you're shooting at, and you wouldn't believe (over half the class actually) how many people initially failed the target shooting requirements. They definitely could hit where they were aiming before the class was over though.
Click to expand...

So...what are you going to do about 3D printing of handguns?

[video=youtube;u7ZYKMBDm4M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7ZYKMBDm4M[/video]

perdidochas · Aug 3, 2015

Yepimonfire said: ↑

I know this and understand it, but if straw purchasing is illegal it's very difficult to prosecute it until we know who is selling and buying those guns. I am a "*******" as you call it, and I'm not out to ban guns, I know many other liberals who aren't either, though I'm sure there are a few extreme libs that are. Background checks are enforced. When have you ever bought a gun (aside from states with the gunshow loophole) and not had to first pass a bg check? I know I haven't, my father hasn't, my friends haven't. All of them had to go through a background check. The problem is once that gun is initially purchased there is absolutely no record of it. I could buy it and give it away, legal or not, and nobody would have even known I was the original owner. How can we prosecute straw purchases if we don't even know who is making the purchase? IIRC, they federal government is not allowed to keep NICS records. I agree, we need prosecution of criminals, the man in my example had just recently been released for a violent criminal history and shouldn't have been out on the streets to begin with, but the point is he was stil somehow able to get a gun, and it had to have been a straw purchase or something similar, if we had a registry, the SN could have been traced back to the straw purchaser, and he could have been shut down.
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First of all, I am sorry that you were called a *******. I hate that kind of silly namecalling. It does nothing to advance any political argument.

Second, you are ignorant of existing gun laws. There is no gun show loophole in any state. The federal laws for selling guns are the same, whether at a gun show, at someone's house, or in a gun shop. Now, there are two sets of standards for selling guns--private sales and federal firearms license (FFL) sales. Private sales don't involve background checks (and rightfully so, not everybody needs access to the background check system) per federal law, although some states require them per state law. FFL sales always involve background checks, no matter if at gun show or at a gun shop. When guns are purchased through an FFL holder, the gun can be traced to the FFL holder (and of course the person who bought it from the FFL).

The thing is, straw purchases will never be stopped, even with gun registration and 100% background checks. Why? Family members and friends of people not allowed to buy guns are still going to do straw purchases. There is no way that anybody is going to ever prevent that. Yes, it will be against the law, but it has been for quite some time.

What "man in my example?" Could you be more specific: (news source).

Are you talking about the illegal alien who somehow had a federal agent's gun? Please tell me how any sort of gun control scheme could have stopped that?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-sanctuary-city-debate-takes-unexpected-turn/

perdidochas · Aug 3, 2015

Yepimonfire said: ↑

Australia's crime rate is still significantly lower than the US's.

The USA has 21% more violent crime to be exact, and a murder rate over 4x as high. http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime

Regardless, looking at violent crime comparison, no other industrialized nation has the amount of violent crime the USA does. And canada requires handguns to be registered and purchasers to first obtain a license. Long guns are not usually used during crimes, so it makes little difference.

Go ahead, show me what country with good gun control (third world or non-developed don't count) has the amount of violent crime we do. I've searched and searched and they just don't happen on the scale they do here.
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Australia's crime rates were lower than ours before their increased gun restrictions.

Our homicide rates (main crime done primarily by guns) are at lows we havent' seen since the early 1960s. I still don't understand why we need to increase gun control, as our violent crimes have been decreasing since the 1990s.

- - - Updated - - -

cjm2003ca said: ↑

if a felon wants a gun he will get a gun..by burglary or from someone on the streets..gun laws will not stop him or her....gun laws on the legal trustworthy people is not the problem..if a felon does a crime he should get a long long time in jail...
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An illegal alien got a stolen gun that had been stolen from a federal agent. If that is possible, it's foolish to think any kind of gun control will work.

cjm2003ca · Aug 3, 2015

perdidochas said: ↑

Australia's crime rates were lower than ours before their increased gun restrictions.

Our homicide rates (main crime done primarily by guns) are at lows we havent' seen since the early 1960s. I still don't understand why we need to increase gun control, as our violent crimes have been decreasing since the 1990s.

- - - Updated - - -

An illegal alien got a stolen gun that had been stolen from a federal agent. If that is possible, it's foolish to think any kind of gun control will work.
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..

right..you get it..but liberals just can't understand reality...guess you can't fix stupid

vman12 · Aug 3, 2015

perdidochas said: ↑

First of all, I am sorry that you were called a *******. I hate that kind of silly namecalling. It does nothing to advance any political argument.

Second, you are ignorant of existing gun laws. There is no gun show loophole in any state. The federal laws for selling guns are the same, whether at a gun show, at someone's house, or in a gun shop. Now, there are two sets of standards for selling guns--private sales and federal firearms license (FFL) sales. Private sales don't involve background checks (and rightfully so, not everybody needs access to the background check system) per federal law, although some states require them per state law. FFL sales always involve background checks, no matter if at gun show or at a gun shop. When guns are purchased through an FFL holder, the gun can be traced to the FFL holder (and of course the person who bought it from the FFL).

The thing is, straw purchases will never be stopped, even with gun registration and 100% background checks. Why? Family members and friends of people not allowed to buy guns are still going to do straw purchases. There is no way that anybody is going to ever prevent that. Yes, it will be against the law, but it has been for quite some time.

What "man in my example?" Could you be more specific: (news source).

Are you talking about the illegal alien who somehow had a federal agent's gun? Please tell me how any sort of gun control scheme could have stopped that?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-sanctuary-city-debate-takes-unexpected-turn/
Click to expand...

FWIW I didn't call him a *******, though I did make the reference. Mainly I was referring to the classic videos on youtube of gun-banning legislators that think people are roaming the highways with .50 cals and incendiary ammo.

Today the problem we face is that you can't get tough on crime because as soon as you do, you're a racist.

Besides, with all these arguments going on legislators have a good smokescreen to hide all their other dirty secrets. Who knows how many guns our own government has put on the street. Fast and Furious was just the tip of the iceberg I'm sure.

perdidochas · Aug 3, 2015

vman12 said: ↑

FWIW I didn't call him a *******, though I did make the reference. Mainly I was referring to the classic videos on youtube of gun-banning legislators that think people are roaming the highways with .50 cals and incendiary ammo.
Click to expand...

I just hate the terms like that--*******, repugnican, **********, etc. They do nothing to advance arguments, and IMHO, just make the person who used the term look stupid.

vman12 said: ↑

Today the problem we face is that you can't get tough on crime because as soon as you do, you're a racist.
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We are tough on crime. That (and demographics) is why our crime rate is lower than it was twenty years ago.

vman12 · Aug 3, 2015

perdidochas said: ↑

I just hate the terms like that--*******, repugnican, **********, etc. They do nothing to advance arguments, and IMHO, just make the person who used the term look stupid.

We are tough on crime. That (and demographics) is why our crime rate is lower than it was twenty years ago.
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That's fine. No matter how stupid I appear they'll always look worse. I'll work harder to veil my insults.

Where are we tough on crime? Certainly not Chicago, certainly not Washington DC. There are places we are tough on crime, but not nearly enough. Being politically correct is far more important than being right anymore.

perdidochas · Aug 3, 2015

vman12 said: ↑

That's fine. No matter how stupid I appear they'll always look worse. I'll work harder to veil my insults.

Where are we tough on crime? Certainly not Chicago, certainly not Washington DC. There are places we are tough on crime, but not nearly enough. Being politically correct is far more important than being right anymore.
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We have the highest prison population in the free world (I don't count China as free). Of course we are tough on crime. Our crime rates are at 1960s levels. For example, our murder rate is somewhere in between 1/3 and 1/2 of what it was at the highest. We are tough on crime.

Yepimonfire · Aug 3, 2015

perdidochas said: ↑

First of all, I am sorry that you were called a *******. I hate that kind of silly namecalling. It does nothing to advance any political argument.

Second, you are ignorant of existing gun laws. There is no gun show loophole in any state. The federal laws for selling guns are the same, whether at a gun show, at someone's house, or in a gun shop. Now, there are two sets of standards for selling guns--private sales and federal firearms license (FFL) sales. Private sales don't involve background checks (and rightfully so, not everybody needs access to the background check system) per federal law, although some states require them per state law. FFL sales always involve background checks, no matter if at gun show or at a gun shop. When guns are purchased through an FFL holder, the gun can be traced to the FFL holder (and of course the person who bought it from the FFL).

The thing is, straw purchases will never be stopped, even with gun registration and 100% background checks. Why? Family members and friends of people not allowed to buy guns are still going to do straw purchases. There is no way that anybody is going to ever prevent that. Yes, it will be against the law, but it has been for quite some time.

What "man in my example?" Could you be more specific: (news source).

Are you talking about the illegal alien who somehow had a federal agent's gun? Please tell me how any sort of gun control scheme could have stopped that?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-sanctuary-city-debate-takes-unexpected-turn/
Click to expand...

MARTA police have charged an Atlanta area man in connection with a weekend shooting on a train that left a passenger wounded.

Eric Anthony Golphin, 30, was charged with aggravated assault, possession of a firearm during the commission of certain crimes and possession of a firearm by a convicted felon.

The shooting occurred during an argument on an eastbound train at the King Memorial rail station just before 10 p.m. Saturday. The 50-year-old man who was wounded was in stable condition at Grady Memorial Hospital, MARTA said in a news release.

Golphin was taken into custody on Monday. He was identified as an Atlanta-area resident whose last known address was the Hancock State Prison in Sparta, MARTA said.
Click to expand...

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/police-detain-man-in-shooting-on-marta-train/nm7M4/

I've seen MULTIPLE cases like this where people who shouldn't get guns (felons) right where I live (Atlanta area) do. I just want it to stop. Perhaps it really is these people just need to stay imprisoned, after all 90% of the time it is felons doing it, and the ones who aren't convicted felons aren't doing it in the scariest ways like shooting random people with no regard for life because you want their stuff, you don't like how they spoke to you on the train etc.

Yepimonfire · Aug 3, 2015

perdidochas said: ↑

I just hate the terms like that--*******, repugnican, **********, etc. They do nothing to advance arguments, and IMHO, just make the person who used the term look stupid.

We are tough on crime. That (and demographics) is why our crime rate is lower than it was twenty years ago.
Click to expand...

e

Don't know about that. I know someone who is serving 2 years for repeatedly raping a child. He is a dangerous person who was also planning to rob a bank prior to getting busted, has tormented my family and threatened to kill them, as far as I'm concerned he should remain locked up, the person barely has a conscience.

perdidochas · Aug 3, 2015

Yepimonfire said: ↑

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/police-detain-man-in-shooting-on-marta-train/nm7M4/

I've seen MULTIPLE cases like this where people who shouldn't get guns (felons) right where I live (Atlanta area) do. I just want it to stop. Perhaps it really is these people just need to stay imprisoned, after all 90% of the time it is felons doing it, and the ones who aren't convicted felons aren't doing it in the scariest ways like shooting random people with no regard for life because you want their stuff, you don't like how they spoke to you on the train etc.
Click to expand...

How is gun registration going to stop people like Mr. Golphin from getting guns? It's already against the law for him to have a gun.

perdidochas · Aug 3, 2015

Yepimonfire said: ↑

e

Don't know about that. I know someone who is serving 2 years for repeatedly raping a child. He is a dangerous person who was also planning to rob a bank prior to getting busted, has tormented my family and threatened to kill them, as far as I'm concerned he should remain locked up, the person barely has a conscience.
Click to expand...

Only 2 years for raping a child? Something is wrong with the system.

Of course our crime rates are down. Murder is down to 1960s levels. Violent crime down to 1970 levels. Overall crime down to 1960s levels. (Look at rates (adjusted for population) not numbers)

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Phoebe Bump · Aug 3, 2015

We already have laws that prevent criminals from purchasing guns.
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We probably have all the laws we need, just not the enforcement. Just another Republican unfunded mandate.

Turtledude · Aug 4, 2015

Phoebe Bump said: ↑

We probably have all the laws we need, just not the enforcement. Just another Republican unfunded mandate.
Click to expand...

so why didn't those laws get funding during the several years that the Dems had control of the house and the senate?

Phoebe Bump · Aug 4, 2015

Turtledude said: ↑

so why didn't those laws get funding during the several years that the Dems had control of the house and the senate?
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That was then, this is now. But Republicans are famous for gutting regulatory agencies.

Turtledude · Aug 4, 2015

Phoebe Bump said: ↑

That was then, this is now. But Republicans are famous for gutting regulatory agencies.
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They need to defund all the clearly unconstitutional agencies. Dept of Education, EPA, ATF, all come to mind

OrlandoChuck · Aug 4, 2015

Yepimonfire said: ↑

I own guns, carry guns, like guns, strongly support the 2nd Ammendment etc. but we need stronger background checks, and I'm most certainly in favor of registration that happens at the time of purchase. Let's be realistic, nobody is just going to come take all your guns if they're registered. Do people come take your car? That's registered. Right now we have a serious problem. Felons who have been convicted continue getting a hold of guns. Just the other day there was a shooting in the major metro I live in that involved a felon who had ALREADY BEEN CONVICTED. How'd he get the gun? Obviously not legally, but nobody can possibly know if we don't have a clear paper trail for the guns. If it were registered at the time of manufacture with the serial number, information sent over about who purchased it for retail sale, registered at the time of sale etc. we would know who was responsible for it last. It's obviously illogical to believe gun control will prevent all crime, but it's no surprise that people who shouldn't have guns keep getting them, and until we have a way to track that down it's going to continue to happen. Felons will keep getting guns and keep shooting people.

I agree, things like assault weapons bans will do nothing to curb gun crime, as most criminals are using cheap handguns or shotguns. It's time for common sense gun control. The data doesn't lie. Countries with registration, strong bg checks etc just don't have the gun crime we do, and most certainly don't have anywhere near the violent crime we do. Even with other weapons. Just look at the crimes per 100,000 of a big city like London compared to the crime per 100,000 in somewhere like Atlanta. In 2012 there was an intentional homicide rate in London of 1.67, vs. 19 in Atlanta. That's very significant. In other countries, like Nordic countries where gun ownership is high, but registration exists, such as Zurich, Switzerland, where the gun ownership rate is nearly half as high as ours, it's still significantly lower, with robberies, murders, and other violent crimes involving a weapon ranking Very Low on numbeo.

I'm also in favor of training requirements for carry permits. Back when I lived in Tennessee, we had to go through a class that basically taught us when self defense was lawful and when it wasn't, basic gun safety, what to do after a self-defense shooting, it also covered things like making sure you had a clear shot, and even required you to pass a target training session, you had to know how to hit what you're shooting at, and you wouldn't believe (over half the class actually) how many people initially failed the target shooting requirements. They definitely could hit where they were aiming before the class was over though.
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You say you carry, but you don't strike me as someone that has a valid concealed carry license.
No one who values their 2A rights is in favor of registration. You can't predict the future, so your claim that our government will not confiscate firearms is only your opinion. People who value the 2A, would never let the government create a pathway for confiscation should the future political winds blow that way.

In most states, if not all states, you must pass a firearm proficiency test as part of the requirement to get a concealed carry license. The majority of the violent crime stats is from inner city ghetto black on black shootings. These people will always have weapons. Normal citizens that are not drug dealers or gang bangers are not at risk to be a victim, and be part of the victim stats. I hate it when people use these stats against lawful gun owners.

You are throwing out stats just like a non gun owning liberal would.

Xenamnes · Aug 4, 2015

Phoebe Bump said: ↑

That was then, this is now. But Republicans are famous for gutting regulatory agencies.
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Explain why Barack Obama has not allotted sufficient funding for the NICS background check system to accurately update its records.

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