A fact that is hard to argue with

there will always be poor people in Capitalist society, the question is - What do we do with them?

Name me 1 Capitalist Country where poor don't exist? You have to go Communist to eradicate poverty.. Understood? Neither republicans nor Democrats can do a darn thing about it. What we can talk about is less inequality, unless you are okay with top 1% owning most of the wealth.

Anyhow, now that we know that the poor will ALWAYS exist, what should we do with them?

1. Ignore them and provide 0 welfare.
2. Support them, by taxing others

If we choose #1, you will have homeless and poor people taking to the streets, robbing, killing, raping and every big city would have mobs of hungry poor people roaming the streets

So we are left with a necessary evil - Tax those who have some $$, support the poor.

What the filthy rich don't understand is that for them to exist (own most of the wealth, even though they are only a small % of population) the poor need to exist. Does anyone think corporate America and the top 10% wealthy would exist if everyone had millions? from the worker at McDonalds, to the janitors, to the ones doing manual labor elsewhere etc? If all these were rich, the current filthy rich wouldn't even exist.. So i call this pure ignorance. If i had billions, i would wake up every morning and the first thing i would do is give thanks to the poor.. i exist because they exist. THIS IS CAPITALISM.

 

Partisan hackery aside, if you think anywhere near the majority of that 22 trillion went toward food.... you're delusional.

 

Seems to me that elimination of poverty is not the goal of safety net programs
Although it has worked remarkably well for senior citizens

 

The current welfare system in the United States is NOT meant to be an aid in lifting individuals/families out of poverty. it is designed solely to keep said recipients dependent on the government. Let me give you an example from REALITY....

For A Family Of Three In Ohio

Cash
Monthly TANF payment for a family of 3 in Ohio $410
or
Monthly SSI payment for an individual in Ohio $733

• Payment per household could be as much as $2,199 depending on how many members are receiving SSI

Food Stamps (SNAP)
Benefit for a family of 3 with no income is $511.

• According to Ohio SSI and/or TANF are NOT considered income with regards to Public Assistance.

WIC
Monthly benefit equivalent to up to $200+ depending on ages and status of individuals in household.

Section 8/Subsidized Housing
Subsidized Housing (Projects) $25 per month for a family with no income.

• In my county TANF and SSI are NOT counted as income with regards to Subsidized Housing/Section 8

Section 8 Voucher $783 for a 2 Bedroom, $1026 for a three bedroom

• Again, TANF and SSI are NOT counted as income, so tenants receive full voucher.

PIPP/HEAP
Main heating source 10% of monthly income/Secondary heating source 5% of monthly income.

• Once again, TANF and SSI are NOT counted as income, therefore making utilities $0

As you can see, for those who know how to work the system, and trust me, they are the majority of generational welfare recipients, it is quite a comfortable lifestyle. Now lets see what happens to those who strive to better themselves and get off the system....

A 3 person family, single parent, two kids. Parent earns $10 per hour, luckily gets 40 hours per week. Gross monthly income is roughly $1600.

Let's start off with TANF, which in Ohio goes by the 250 and a half rule. In other words Of the $1600 $250 is subtracted leaving $1350 remaining. The remaining $1350 is divided in half giving you $675. Seeing as how that exceeds the maximum monthly TANF benefit, there goes your TANF.
SSI Will exclude the first $65 of that $1600, leaving you with $767.50. Oops that's more than the monthly SSI benefit for an individual, so there goes that money too.
SNAP calculates 30% of the $1600 to be subtracted from your benefits which comes out to $511 - $480. Leaving you with a whopping $31 in SNAP benefits per month.
WIC has quite generous income limits so those benefits should not be affected.
Both Section 8 and Subsidized housing in my area go by the 30% guideline, And we already know that 30% of $1600 is $480.
Utility payments are also affected even if you are able to remain on the PIPP program. Main heating source now can be up to $160 per month, secondary source up to $80 per month.

So lets see where we stand.....
Monthly income on the system.... Anywhere from $1121 to $3936 with at most $25 outlay.
Monthly income when working fitting the aforementioned pay scale $1600.
Now lets look at the new expenditures...
Groceries... $300 per month CASH out of your pocket
Now we're down to $1300
Rent.... Minimum $480 a month, if you're lucky enough to keep your voucher/subsidized housing
Now we're down to $820
Gas and Electric.... Up to $240 a month....
Crap we're already down to $580 and we haven't even begun to factor in transportation costs for getting yourself to and from your job, the daycare costs for someone to watch your children while you work, The taxes, insurance, etc.... being taken out of your check every week ....

THIS is why welfare as it stand DOES NOT WORK. It traps families in a never-ending cycle of poverty that is all but inescapable.... Our current welfare system rewards those comfortable being taken care of cradle to grave and deeply penalizes anyone who tries to "rise above their station". It's flawed, it's failing our poor, and it's unsustainable.

 

Dependent on the government as opposed to dying from lack of nutritional food and adequate healthcare, and exposure to the elements and criminals?

Threads like this just go to show how little conservatives care about the welfare of others.

 

Funny, I'm not a conservative, nor have I ever been. I simply live in reality. I am poor and I am penalized every single day by the "system" you worship because I am trying to work and better my and my families situation. So please spare me your tripe about how it's all the evil conservatives fault. I live in an extremely blue region, one which has been blue my entire life and then some. The reason my city is so damn economically depressed is due to the failed economic and social policies of the liberal regurgitators such as yourself.

 

Are you mad the system isn't giving you enough?

 

I get NOTHING from the system. I work for a living. I barely make poverty level but at least I can look at myself in the mirror and see someone who views personal accountability and responsibility as admirable traits. It's not my fault you cannot say the same dear.
So please, take your childish insinuations and erroneous assumptions elsewhere and let the grown ups discuss the issues.

 

What about poor people that vote RepubliCON in Red States that suckle off the Teet of Blue States

http://www.salon.com/2014/09/20/10_red_states_that_mooch_off_the_federal_government_partner/

 

The simple fact is welfare needs an overhaul, but for that to happen you need oversight. Republicans have been DEMANDING that government spending go down, so what's the VERY first thing they go after? Government workers. So what you have is a system with basically no real oversight and an increasing amount of people going on welfare.

Without an overhaul and proper oversight (which means the people to ACTUALLY DO IT), the problem will continue to persist.

The welfare we have "IS" a safety net, but the problem is that "safety net" becomes a cage for people. Don't work and you get food, shelter, and money. However, if you try to get work or get daycare so you can go to college to better yourself and you are cutoff or there are not "programs" available for you to do so. And from there you get the Republicans that then blame you for not bettering yourself. It's a catch 22 system the way it is right now.

The frustrating part is the GOP spends their time wanting to dismantle social welfare programs instead of reforming it and having oversight and the Dems want to continue it but not reform it or have any oversight. Both the Dems and GOP are utter failures when it comes to managing welfare.

 

So would those poor people be rich today had they been voting republicans?

 

Using that logic, there are still people using drugs after the war on the drugs has been going on for decades so does that mean you are for legalizing ALL drugs?

 

So you're saying if they'd have voted Republican, they'd be rich?