homophobia is now defined as the belief that homosexuality is a sin

As with the other posters empty, rhetorical assertions about the definition of homophobia, this asserted definition of bigotry is equally unsupportable. Not only can some leftists also be bigoted, they also don't have independent control over the definitions of words any more than those on the right can independently control the definition of words like marriage.

This isn't how the ongoing evolution of language works.

 

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The current stance of most Christian denominations is that gay sex itself is sinful, not being gay. They will equally say that acts of fornication, adultery, bestiality, polygamy etc are sinful, though having some internal desire to do so isn't.

The core concept of sin is not giving into desires to commit the sin. Maybe a person really, really wants to steal something, really wants to have an extra-marital affair etc - and the faith-test is not doing so.

I'm not claiming agreement, but rather opposing gay sex is not per se declaring be gay is sinful. Rather, it is the actual act of gay sex itself that is sinful. The Catholic Church goes on to say contraceptives are sinful as is divorce in most circumstances. Other denominations will say that anal sex, oral sex and masturbation also are sinful etc.

 

Homophobic? No. Ignorant? Yes, but that is just my opinion there.

The simple fact is just because YOU think something is a sin, doesn't mean it should be made illegal or have it banned on that belief alone. If you think homosexuality is a sin, then don't engage in homosexuality yourself. However, there is nothing in the bible that says that it is a sin to make an item that is used in a gay marriage.

 

The focus on it as a sin might be.

Everyone sins, a business that refused to sell or serve to sinners would be extremely short lived. If a person had a religion that believed that certain races or people from certain regions or classes were unclean and decided to not serve them on religious grounds it might violate civil liberties. Religion is not a trump card for every situation. Religion is so loosely defined that if it was our laws about discrimination would officially be moot.

The love of wealth is clearly defined as a sin also. 1 Tim 6:5-9 , 1 Tim 6:10-12

If I used that as a religious justification to feel about the rich the way some people feel about gays; would that make my attitude moral?

 

Marriage is redefined constantly, all words are.

 

Let's get this straight: Christians who believe that homosexuality is a sin believe that consensual sex between two adult members of the same gender is something that deserves soul-death and eternal torture, that it once was a legitimate cause for earthly execution, that it draws the ire of the creator of the universe in the same way that murder does. Hell, many of them believe that this ticks God off so much that he occasionally punishes the country as a whole for not taking more drastic measures to stop it. They believe that, rather than being natural, it came into this world when a mud-man and a bone-woman disobeyed their sky spirit by eating magic fruit from a talking snake.

Yes, this is an extreme and irrational aversion, otherwise known as a "phobia".

 

Christians don't believe that at all.
Christians believe that all sin is forgivable.... since God make that perfectly clear in the Bible.

Switch that to Muslims, and you're dead on (no offense).

You guys go to such extremes in your imaginary opposing viewpoints because the truth doesn't vilify your enemy enough.... but it's rather pathetic when that is all you can come up with.

 

It is also believed if someone divorces and then marries another it also is the sin of adultery. Yet this is not outlawed nor is the religious rightwing urging outlawing that sin nor even openly against it - since a majority of divorces and remarriages are by people who claim they are Christians. The highest divorce rates are in the Bible belt states.

 

Then they haven't been reading their Bible, which isn't surprising. I'm actually a little relieved that so many choose to skip what the Bible has to say about the "wages of sin". Should you choose, you can pick up your own Bible and read the first chapter of Romans. It lists homosexuality as a sin "worthy of death". I'm happy if you don't believe that, though.

. . . they still believe (as the Bible teaches) that the deserved punishment for sin is death and Hell. Believing that you can be forgiven and that the punishment can be escaped does not change the fact that they believe this is the just punishment.

Everything I've said here is based on my experience with Christians (no offense).

I didn't "come up with" any of this. This is all what I was taught from the pulpit. You can hear it preached in any sola scriptura church.

 

Wages of "sin" = unrepented sin, not a swear word or lie or gay experimentation that you confess (that's the part you ignored).

Lol... pretty major difference if you actually read the Bible.
That makes the rest of your post moot, so I deleted it.

The verse, in it's entirety....
Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life"

Yet, He has already said we were all born sinners.

So you're saying that since we're all sinners, we're all going to Hell, and there is no gift, or eternal life.
Even those whose mission is to try and find contradictions in the Bible would laugh at you for that one.. ; )

Careful now... your fellow gays & libs insist homosexuality is not considered a sin.
Or.... at least in the NT.
Depending which one you ask.

I don't. Nor do 99% of Christians.
Nor does God, according to the Bible.
Something you may want to read.

 

The wages of homosexual activity, according to the Bible, is death. Yes, according to the Bible, you can repent and escape that penalty. That doesn't change the fact that death is supposedly the just penalty. That's not the "part ignored", that's the part I specifically spelled out in my last post.

lol, if you are going to ignore it and admit to ignoring it, don't accuse me of having ignored it. That's on you.

Yes . . . and? That's exactly what I just said: death is supposedly the just punishment, but you can escape it.

Yes, which is another weird phobia.

That's not what I said at all, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't make up lies like this. What I'm saying is that, according to the Bible, we all deserve Hell . . . which is exactly what the Bible says repeatedly and what you can hear preached in any sola scriptura church. The Bible also says we can escape this punishment, but it is still very clear that this is the punishment that we deserve. Have you not paid attention in Sunday school? Salvation isn't earned, according to sola scriptura Christianity. If we all got what we earned, we'd all go to Hell. Salvation is a gift for those who will accept it, not a reward for those who deserve it.

As I said in my original post, according to Biblical Christianity, homosexual activity is a sin worthy of death and eternal torture.

And yet you only find your laughs by completely changing my claim and ignoring things that you accuse me of ignoring.

And I agree. Thinking it is a sin is a phobia -- an irrational and exaggerated fear or aversion.

Go back and read my first post. That's why I specifically directed my comments towards "Christians who believe homosexuality is a sin".

"I don't" doesn't make grammatical sense in combination with the statements that came before. I make grammatical mistakes all of the time, so I'm not complaining about that, but it does make this statement difficult to read. Are you saying that you don't consider homosexuality a sin, nor do 99% of Christians, or are you saying that you (and 99% of Christians) do not agree with that sentiment? Either way, I'd love to see evidence that you are right.

The same Bible that says God invented hereditary slavery, that rape victims should marry their attackers and that infanticide is sometimes okay? You are welcome to keep it. I'll have no part. I've met preschoolers with a better grasp of morality . . . in fact, I don't think I've ever met a preschooler with a worse grasp on morality.

lol, I've read it multiple times, which is why the only "fault" you've managed to find in my argument is by completely changing my argument to something else entirely.

 

By the way, if you do a simple Google search for "We all deserve to go to Hell", you'll find countless Christians saying exactly what I'm telling you here. I don't know how you haven't encountered this doctrine before.

 

Based on the examples you offer of your Bible reading skills.... I can totally understand the above.

 

You question my reading skills . . . when I quote the Bible word-for-word? "Worthy of death" is exactly the way the first chapter of Romans puts it. Ever Christian I've spoken to who believes that homosexuality is a sin, even in the NT, always pulls out Romans 1 . . . though they normally mumble through the "worthy of death" part.

 

I wasn't questioning them. I was pointing them out.


More interesting topic... your ID... what does it mean?

I've heard the term but it's pretty insulting... so I was curious.

 

Well, all I did was quote the Bible directly. If you have a different opinion, and you don't believe that sin is "worthy of death" then your opinion differs with the one offered by Romans 1. Nothing wrong with that; my personal opinion obviously differs with the one offered in Romans 1 as well. I understand full well that Christians believe that sins are "worthy of death", BUT this judgement can be escaped by accepting God's grace. I'm not denying the BUT exists in Christianity. I'm just pointing out the absurdity of what precedes it.

Hm, I'm not sure about any insulting meaning. Where I'm from, "yard meat" refers to, well, meat that you might find in your yard -- squirrels, rabbits, etc. My family uses the term teasingly when referring to kids in the family. "Gator bait" is another popular one with them.

 

All sin that goes unrepented is worthy of death. "Death" in the Bible means "separation from God". So, basically Hell... because you never really die. This does not mean that Christians think gays should be killed. I don't know of any who believe that (although I am sure someone will start frantically Googling for one right now.. and find him). He is not the representative God, or any Christians I know, want speaking for them.

My point is... I have grown up in Christian surroundings my entire short life, and I know thousands of them and have read and listened to hundreds. I don't know any of them who believe homosexuality is worthy of death, the way you're portraying it. Like any other sin, one just needs to repent of it. There is forgiveness. There is salvation. There is the gift of eternal life that God offers immediately after "the wages of sin is death".

I am not claiming you are not reading the Bible word for word, from whichever translation you Googled.
I am claiming that the words you are reading have definite meaning behind them. And the translation you are using will probably explain what is meant by "death" and "sin" and whatever else. To say "the wages of sin is death, so Christians think gays deserve death" is absurd.

Ok, I've heard that one too. Was just curious. Thx

 

. . . yes . . . that's what I'm talking about, which is why I said as much in my first post. I specified "soul-death" and "Hell".

Which is why I haven't talked about execution here, except when talking about the past.

They are a minority, but they do exist (I'm assuming you've heard of the Westboro Baptist Church, for example). Thankfully the majority of first world Christians reject the minority that expresses this view. But again, I wasn't talking about executions here. I was talking about death and Hell as the wages of sin.

I hope not. Then again, I hope the same as true for anyone who teaches the horrifically immoral doctrine of Hell.

You are fighting a straw man and making assumptions only to turn around and accuse me of making those assumptions. I'm not talking about executions. I'm talking about death and Hell as God-ordained just punishments for sin, including homosexuality. I'm not talking about anyone taking God's judgement into their own hands. I've spoken about that in other threads -- the way that Christians in the past have used Romans 13 as an excuse to do just that -- but that's not what I've been talking about here.

They do think that homosexual activity is something which is worthy of death. That's what the Bible says. I'm not saying that think they should carry out that judgement on God's behalf and I'm not saying they don't believe there is a way to escape that punishment and enter into God's grace. You are, again, fighting a straw man.

 

is it homophobia to say that bisexuality better than homosexuality?

 

Noit's just an opinion.

 

if saying bisexuality is better than homosexuality is just an opinion and is not homophobia, then is it ok to convince someone to take transgenderizing drugs to turn bisexual?

 

People don't turn bisexual, and drugs associated with transgenderism aren't necessary or even related.

 

linked below is an article about bruce jenner turning transgender. Transsexual surgery doctors were consulted and said there was a better than 60% chance his sexual orientation could be turned either bisexual or gay due to high dose hormone therapy. therefore, it is possible that transgender therapy given to gay men could allow them to be bisexual at least.

the therapy comes with a heavy cost, however; it turns gay men into women. although the therapy also turns them female, that is less likely to concern christians who are more offended by gay men having sex with other men. this is not gay-to-straight conversion therapy, it is gay-to-bisexual conversion therapy.


Bruce Jenner: Sexual Preference Uncertain After Cross Sex Hormone Therapy

 

Transgenderism isn't bisexuality.

Its not a change in sexuality