Joopers! My 2A rights have nothing whatsoever to do with jumping through hoops for some nerdy looking guy with too many tattoos. Go to some debating class or something if you want to play these games. I say again, we've been exposed to a very long and tiring parade of liberal talking points, filled with self proclaimed "experts" who expertly spin whatever tall tale they want from statistics that are cherry picked to say whatever they want. The thread title is "Guns don't kill people; etc..." Why are you derailing it?
You know it is the parents. I see kids today behaving in ways in public that if I had ever behaved like that my parents would have beat my A$$!! The parents just let the kids get away with anything and do little to punish them or straighten them out and GOD FORBID a good parent gives their kid a smack on the A$$ or hand for doing something wrong in public because if the parent does that Social Services will be there with the Cops arresting that parent for Child Abuse and send the kids off to a Foster Home where the kids will probably be abused or raped while their real parent rots in jail!!! People are crazy!! AboveAlpha
There is one fact that is indisputable and that is communities that are heavily armed have a drastically lower number of violent crimes and crime in general compared to communities that are not so armed. AboveAlpha
LOL!!! There are only about 500!!! LOL!!! Take your pick....FBI studies...DEA....ATF...etc...etc...etc... This is a well known fact. Most violent crimes and especially violent gun related crimes occur in large cities where the percentage of citizens who own a firearm is very low compared to rural areas. Where I live in Western Massachusetts and Mass. is a VERY heavily armed state population...there is virtually no violent crime nor is there any violent gun crimes. Just about EVERYONE owns a firearm of some type here. AboveAlpha
I just did. Just run a search on FBI studies of communities with high levels of gun ownership have lower violent gun related crimes than communities with low levels of gun ownership. This is true across the entire United States. AboveAlpha
The overall risk of suicide is the number of people who want to commit suicide. The overall number of suicides is the number of people who do commit suicide. Your source literally confirmed my point: States, regions, and countries with higher rates of household gun ownership have higher rates of gun suicide. There is also cross-sectional, ecological association between gun ownership and overall risk of suicide, but this association is more modest than the association between gun ownership and gun suicide; it is less consistently observed across time, place, and persons; and the causal relation remains unclear. The risk of suicide is highest immediately after the purchase of a handgun, suggesting that some firearms are specifically purchased for the purpose of committing suicide. Some gun control policies may reduce the number of gun suicides, but they have not yet been shown to reduce the overall risk of suicide in any population. ... This has already been explained elsewhere in the thread, at length, so please review if you get a chance.
US isn't even close to the top of the list regarding suicides, we rank around 20th in the world. Many of the other countries don't have guns or the suicides were committed without firearms. The top ten.... how many have public ownership of firearms? #1 South Korea #2 Hungary #3 Japan #4 Belgium #5 Finland #6 France #7 Austria #8 Poland #9 Czech Rep #10 New Zealand - - - Updated - - - What is "reasonable" gun control?
Again, suicide is not caused by guns. It is made easier by guns. Were those countries to have ease of access to guns, there would be more suicides. Pointing out that other countries have more suicides doesn't address the point, which is that gun ownership increases the number of suicides by making the process easier, more convenient and more lethal. This is axiomatic. As far as reasonable gun control goes, I'd suggest emulating the Canadian system.
Canada is 10.2 per 100,000 people Us is 10.1 per 100,000 The point is that a firearm is not necessary to commit successful suicide.
Maybe Maple Syrup increases the odds of suicide. I wonder if any studies have been done. - - - Updated - - - I think you're reaching. There is no causation. While it might increase the chances of some spur of the moment, drunken suicide you can just as easily throw yourself off a bridge. Does living near a bridge increase the chances of suicide too?
I agree. It isn't necessary. It is just the most convenient, effective and painless method, and study after study has shown conclusively that gun access results in more suicide deaths. Again, pointing to a higher rate does not address this issue whatsoever. - - - Updated - - - I'm not reaching, it really is just common sense, confirmed over and over again by studies conducted all over the world. If I were to speculate on your motives, I'd conclude that you were uncomfortable with admitting this truth because you don't want it to be used to justify more gun control. Which is fine but it is better to just say it then to simply deny the facts.
I'm not uncomfortable at all but thanks for the concern. You're basically saying that those countries with the highest suicide rates in the world, would be even higher if they had access to guns. You have nothing to base that on. You suggested we model Canada in regards to gun regulations, and when shown that their rate is actually slightly higher, you say it does not address the issue. Having a gun, or not having a gun, is independent of the CHOICE to commit suicide. Once the decision to commit suicide has been made, then of course most people who have a gun will use it. It is the best combination of fast, sure and least painful. This reminds me of the study that says "People who have guns in their home are more likely to die with a gun than people who don't own guns". I learned in school that anything more than zero was more, so yeah, I'm sure that's true.
No, it doesn't. It decreases suicides by guns, it doesn't decrease the overall suicide rate. After all, if that was the case, Japan's suicide rate wouldn't be significantly higher than our combined murder and suicide rate.
My guess is it's that vile pisswater they call beer; Molson. I'd want to off myself if that's what I had to drink.
Eww maybe you're right, I forgot about that stuff. Had some visiting Vancouver when I was stationed in Whidbey Island. Blech.
I do have reasons to say that. Again, please review the two dozen studies that I posted earlier in this thread. There is literally no doubt whatsoever that having access to guns increases suicide deaths. I've already gone over the rationale for this at length. We know that having a gun in the home increases the risk of suicide in that home 2-10 fold. We know that most people only try once. We know that guns are 99% effective in suicides. It defies all logic and research to argue that reducing access to guns doesn't decreases suicide deaths. In cultures where guns aren't prevalent, such as Korea or Japan, the most common choice for suicide is pesticide - after reducing consumer access to pesticides, suicide deaths dropped considerably in both countries, and only increased following economic recession (and are now dropping again). As I said, saying "it's worth protecting the Second Amendment" is a valid and respectable point. Simply denying well-established academic fact is not.
Molson really is terrible, but American corporate beer is literally the worst on the planet. Like Canada, you have to go to micro-breweries to find the good stuff. - - - Updated - - - I have addressed this point already, and refer you to the post above. Pointing at rates doesn't address the argument.
I'll go back and have a look at your links. I do have another question though. Why is it that women who have access to guns are choosing to poison themselves instead?
If I had to wager a guess, it's that they generally care more about their appearance. But I don't know for sure.
So these theories only hold up for males then. If access to a gun was statistically influential, it would be the primary choice for both genders. It is not. I'd say suicide has a lot more to do with depression and mental disorders. Of all the suicides attempted only a small fraction of those did not make a plan to kill themselves, which sort of limits the impact a spur of the moment "oh look a gun" would have. http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics
