Catalonian Parliament votes to move towards speedy independence

i think you need to learn your history
there was no spain before the union between isabela and ferdinand
before that you had castilie and aragon(wich is essentially catalonia+some extra)

aragon was arround for over 450 years as a seperate kingdom and the crown of aragon existed up to the 18th century even when it was part of Spain
so they have plenty of historicle claim to be a independend people if they want to be

 

False. The Kingdom of Spain was established by the Goths.. and before it was the Province of Hispania and Tarraco was the capital for a time.. and the Diosece of Spain... in fact, the Franks stablished the Spanish Mark in what today is Catalonia.
All the kings in Medieval Time considered themselves as Spaniards and sucessors of the Kingdom of Spain. Never Catalonia was a "independent" country and Aragon was not an Indepedent country from Spain.. but a Spanish independent kingdom as Castile or Navarre.
Spain will be what Spanish people decide to be... the only way is possible an independent catalonia is the Spanish People vote in Referendum.
Regards

 

To give an proportional answer and to send the rebels to the jail... to close the regional parliament and remove competition education that they can not continue to spread the hate in schools. Mosos de Escuadra are enough to control the rebel parlament.

 

the spanish mark has no reference to the actually country but to the region/people
the kingdom of spain did not exist up to the union no matter how you put it, before that aragon was a independent country same as castilie and navarre and like portugal is now

aragon was a independent kingdom from 1150-1492 or so.
and the country stil existed inside spain as a seperate country from castilie up to 1707-1715 with its own laws and institutions.

perhaps you could go back to that a confederation of 2 independent countrys


Spain has no affairs in the independence of catalonia
if catalonia desides to be independent tomorrow then all laws and complains of spain wont aply anymore for the region.
all you can do then is send in the army if you dare

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that wont work if the police and other institutions dont listen to spain anymore

 

The Spanish Mark.. the Marca Hispanica did reference to the province of Hispania and the old kingdom of Spania. It is clear what today is Catalonia belonged always to the Province of Hispania and the Kingdom of Spanaan, Ispania, Espanna etc etc...

False. The kingdom was established by the Goth, destroyed by Islam... and the whole of the Spanish kingdoms.. from Asturias to Aragon considered themselves heirs of the Kingdom of Spain, which the chronics named the loss of Spain.

Aragon was a SPANISH kingdom for centuries.. all the books wrote in Spain during the Medieval Age are very clear.. Asturias, Leon, Castille, Aragon, Navarre considered to themselves as Spanish kingdoms.. so, Catalonia don´t belong to Spain... Catalonia is Spain..

Catalonia was never a country.. and they had their institutions as Grenade, Seville, Toledo and all the realms, duchies etc in the Medieval Age. In XIII Century, the catalonian Ribera de Perijá (or Perpignan) wrote the Crónica d´Espanya (and of course, it is the chronicle about what aragonese and catalonian were doing in that time because everybody knew Catalonia, Aragon, Castile, Navarre, Galicia etc were Spain).

Not only it has affair but decisive... Ony the Spanish people decide about Spain. If the Police don´t obey the orders.. we are talking about rebellion. In that case... The Guardia Civil, Policia Nacional and the Armed Forces consisted by the Army, Navy and Air Force would have to sofocate the rebellion.
Now we are living a Coup... did by the Generalitat. But if the police took part... it is going to be an Armed Coup... in that case, the Armed Forces had to intervene.
Regards

 

imprison the rebels? Bloody hell you are the little fascist arent you. The uproar will be incredible all over the EU. You will be savaged by the ECHR. I am going to enjoy watching this

 

They would probably not ask for independance if the regionalism wasen't so powerful in Spain.

Countries where the minorities have less freedom don't have strong problems with them as Spain got... I mean, you will never see this kind of things in China, for exemple...: They do all what they can to unify the country there, meanwhile in Spain, they let people kept their own particularities...
And for rewards them, Spain's minorities use these differences that they have been allowed to kept to say that they are not part of Spain... So, Spanish people are penalised for their respect of the culture, langage, etc... of their notional minorities Not very very fair...

Also, Spain will probably be supported by the international community, because it's an old and revelant country. The young Catalonia may be unliked... Also, when they make the majority of their buisness with Spain, it's not very clever to spat one them, I think... Spanish may not enjoy doing buisness with people who hate them, and we can understand it.

 

Exactly. For example, in France no "catalonian" trouble... in France, the catalonian language is banned in School as teaching language... in Spain, the most decentralized country from the K und K Monarchie in 1918...the country were the Spanish Language is banned as teaching language in a Spanish Region as Catalonia... however... there are troubles... made by the social engineering

The only "little fascist" are who attack the individual and civil rights, dear

 

Who is attacking individual and civil rights? you are trying to have politicians thrown in jail for daring to declare independence.

The real problem is that Spain behaves like a third world country.

 

Exactly! People are teached to be patriot with their country or with their region;
you can feel patriot of your country, and love you region too, but if you feel patriot of your region, you can't really love your country because you oppose your region to the others, so you will consider the people who don't come from your region like foreingers, even if they come from the same country than you...

When we hear what Catalans says, it look like if they where persectued or I don't know what... The truth is that they just don't love the others Spanish, so, they don't want share their monney with them; that's 100% selfishness... and they try to look victimized...

 

Spare Catalonia from the rest of Spain will violate the spanish Consitution and hurt strongly their enconomy, that's normal if they are trying to stop them.
There, the independentalists are breaking the law, the Spanish can't wach them without doing anything, it would be the anarchy.

 

but who says they're Spanish?

as we have discussed and documented enough times on this forum, they are Catalans ~ a different ethnicity altogether

 

They could be Catalans AND Spanish; they are in Spain, they are and have been officialy Spanish for a very long time; so they can refer to themself as Spanish people. Saying that they are Catalans but not Spanish is just a way they find to spare their part of the country from the rest of Spain.

This is not because they got a different ethicity than the majority of the people in the country that they have to get their own country... This way, we would have to built a country for each ethnie, which is completly impossible!

 

That's like saying that Palestinians are Israelis because the zionists invaded their land, annexed it, proclaimed it as their own, and imposed the title of "Israeli" on them.

 

Always people who try to victimize themself... Israelis where in Israël before Palestinians, they could also say that Palestinians are colonising their land and that they are just trying to defend themself, it would be far to be false.

But here, we're speaking about two people who haven't got a common history and who have been opposed for centuries - for Spain, it's different; both parts of Spain lived together for a long time, that created links that can't be denied like that.

 

Palestinians are Semites who were there before zionism was created and pushed by Ashkenazim who are related to Abraham. Anyone with even the slightest knowledge of history knows that.


As we discussed and documented previously, Catalans are of Phoenician and Carthaginian origin and they ruled in that land 500 years before the first Latins came into existence.

 

Palestinians and Jews are all semites.

 

As we have discussed and documented on this forum innumerable times, Ashkenazim are not descended of Abraham and are therefore not Semites which is a tribal not a religious identity.

 

I heard several versions about that... There's some Israelis who claim that they where here a very long time ago and are trying to find evidences to prove that. Anyway, I admit that I don't know a lot of things about this subject so I will not to try to contradict you.

All of that depend of you conception of the nationality... I mean, I don't really think that spare people thanks to their "races" like if they where dogs or something like that is a good thing; it would be better to consider the national community like a group who share a common culture, history, ideas, etc...
But this is just a point of view, obviously, not shared by everyone...
We just can notice that the ethnie was not as important as nowdays for Catalans when Spain haden't all this financial problems...

 

Exactly - it is the Spaniards who need Catalonians, not the other way around.

 

That's right nowdays; what annoy me is the fact that they change just in the moment where they think it's their avantage... It's not very fair.
Also, they are rich now, but no one know what will happen when they will be independants. They will probably be quite boycotted by a large part of Europe, particulary by Spain, so, Catalogna will be really less rich than now... Well, in my opinion, this is a stupid idea who show well how indivisualist people become... They will probably regret it...

 

Why would Europe boycott Catalonia - a nation that sacrificed so much against the Nazis until they were stopped by the pro fascist forces in Madrid?

The Czech Republic and Slovakia broke away from each other and they are members of NATO. Albania, Croatia, and Slovenia broke away from Yugoslavia but are also members. Europe did not boycott them for their actions. There is absolutely no basis for boycotting Catalonia when it exercises its right to be free of foreign tyranny.



HOMAGE TO CATALONIA!!!

 

Europe will not boycott Catalonia because they dislike it, there's no reason to dislike this region; they may boycott it because they support the concept of an united stade... I mean, it start with Catalogna and Spain, then, it will be an another region of Europe who will claim independance; and we've got the risk to finish with full of new littles states... It would be a real mess, European governements probably don't want that.
So there's probably lots of people who will not enjoy to see Catalonia became independant.

 

Then why no objection to the splitting up of the nations I mentioned previously?

 

So which Countries do you think will boycott Catallonia I can Guarantee the UK will not. No one outside Spain actually cares, we are just amused to see tin pot Nationalist Spaniards jump up and down in rage telling Catalunyans that it is their right not to let them go. We took the decision in the UK that its up to the constituent parts to decide for themselves whether to be independent or not.

The EU would be pro the splitting up of countries since they far prefer the Idea of regions within a larger EU superstate transiting the State structure. Personally in the UK I would like to see Wales,Scotland and Northern Ireland become independent within the EU with a British Isles organisation akin to the Nordic league to facillitate regional co operation.