San Bernardino Shooters - Saudi Arabian

I have yet to read a post from you that speaks in a negative manner about these issues...
Everyone you have met and have been associated with must be as pure as the driven snow...either
that or youre full of sh1t...or maybe you just have an agenda.......

 

Wahhabis oppose any form of nationalism as an ideology,


The militant Islam of Osama bin Laden did not have its origins in the teachings of Ibn Abd-al-Wahhab and was not representative of Wahhabi Islam as it is practiced in contemporary Saudi Arabia, yet for the media it came to define Wahhabi Islam during the later years of bin Laden's lifetime.

However "unrepresentative" bin Laden's global jihad was of Islam in general and Wahhabi Islam in particular, its prominence in headline news took Wahhabi Islam across the spectrum from revival and reform to global jihad.

Noah Feldman distinguishes between what he calls the "deeply conservative" Wahhabis and what he calls the "followers of political Islam in the 1980s and 1990s," such as Egyptian Islamic Jihad and later Al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri.


Karen Armstrong stated that Osama bin Laden, like most extremists, followed the ideology of Sayyid Qutb, not "Wahhabism".

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You want facts or emotions?

 

If you ever do get around to watching BL you'll realise just how limited your insight is.

 

I want the truth...but you cant handle the truth...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FnO3igOkOk

 

You mean the meeting between FDR and Ibn Saud in Egypt?

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You ever been around any Wahhabis?

 

Essentially yes - it spoke volumes to me. 'We will take your money, and we will take your guns, but you must leave our religion alone.'?

 

I understand your position and, believe me, I didn't arrive at my thoughts about Wahhabism recently, it was years and years ago. I do believe the Wahhabis are a major league problem and the KSA is a corrupt and barbaric society, despotic actually. They have taken Islam , a religion that was the leader of the day in enlightenment, insight, education and a staggering appreciation for sciences in the Middle Ages back to the Dark Age. Islam was far and away ahead of Christianity in that era and the Wahhabis have devolved the religion. My thoughts on Wahhabism are no different than what I think about the most virulent sects of Christianity and Judaism, I detest them equally. They are all whack jobs and extremely dangerous, my opinion only. The house of Saud made a bad deal with the Wahhabis a long, long time ago and there is no going back, apparently.

 

I don't think it has changed very much since the 7th century? Actually from what I found out in BL, it hasn't changed at all since then! Talk about 'living in the past'?

 

So how come they finance ISIS?

 

Actually Wahhabism is a relatively recent movement, the 18th century actually. People and nations who are, or consider themselves oppressed, will retreat into a movement, be it political and/ or religious. In the middle east the Ottoman Empire was the power, from the 15th century thru the conclusion of WW I. A parallel of retreating into religion happened in North America where the population of New France (Quebec) "withdrew" even deeper into their religion (Catholic) after the British conquest in 1760. The British however were somewhat benevolent (Quebecers will no doubt disagree) in allowing the people of New France to keep their civil law and their religion etc. Wahhabis aren't as tolerant....

 

I don't recall mentioning bombs bursting in air let alone denying it. I was clear that I get war is used as a blunt tool and that where independence or unification or infrastructure contracts are gained there will be cause for many or some to celebrate. But I don't think people celebrate the reality of war as much as the struggle for the ideal. That is why those who lose wars don't celebrate them and that is why those who win wars celebrate their end and not their beginning.
If America had achieved its independence through diplomacy without any violence from the UK, would you be complaining that your 4th of July was great but 'its a shame we didn't get to fight a war to make it an even better day'?

 

There is no free press in the KSA...

 

Osama bin Laden wasn't a salafi .. he followed al Bannah and neither is Daesh salafi.. they are Baathists.

If a Saudi fights for ISIS he goes to prison on his return to the kingdom. Its time some of you finally got your facts straight.

 

July 4th 1776, the WAR was declared against England. Yes you fail history lessons again. The start of a Great War is celebrated by ALL Americans except you. Do I need to post the entire song lyrics? Have you never sang the American National Anthem? Oops you are an Ausy. No wonder you choose not to celebrate the war the way America does. No use explaining that any more.

 

I think it is going a bit Far to say "just as guilty" but point taken.

At the end of the day it worse than absurd and disingenuous to support extremist religious terrorism in one part of the globe and then react in complete shock when the same brand of religious extremism attacks us at home.

 

I didn't say he was Salafi but it matters not. Bin Laden and Salafi's are cut from the same extremist religious cloth, have the same "Strict Sharia" goals and both are terrorists groups supported by Saudi's and/or House of Saud.

I did not make any claim to the contrary and frankly - you have been caught out on the wrong side of the truth in relation to Saudi Arabia way too many times.

 

Obama gonna get to the bottom of it...

Islamic State describes Californian shooters as followers
Saturday 5th December, 2015 | WASHINGTON D.C. - U.S. President Barack Obama has vowed federal investigators will uncover what motivated a married couple in California to shoot and kill 14 people."We are strong. And we are resilient. And we will not be terrorized," Obama said in his weekly address on December 5.

See also:

Pakistani security seeks to tamp down reporting on California shooter
6 Dec.`15 - Pakistani security forces appeared to be trying to dampen down reporting this weekend on the background of Tashfeen Malik, who mounted an attack alongside her husband that killed 14 people in California.

 

Salafis aren't nationalistic.. That is not part of the Wahhabis ideology.. I know Saudi Arabia and its leadership quite well over the past 65 years.. OBL followed al Banna.. When the MB was granted sanctuary as they were expelled from Egypt they promised never to teach their brand.. They did and were expelled by King Faisel..

You would have to be an absolute fool to accuse our oldest and most reliable ally in the region based on the speculations of halfwits who have NO experience of KSA and wouldn't know a Wahhabi if one flew up their nose.

The last people to support terrorism would be the al Saud.

 

Margot wrote: ... and wouldn't know a Wahhabi if one flew up their nose.

Granny says if one o' dem Wahhabis flies up her nose...

... she gonna sneeze `im out...

... an step on `im an' squish `im like a bug.

 

I did not know that...or rather probably forgot it as I did learn it at some point in my past. So I stand corrected July 4th does not mark the end of the war of independence.
Then again from a quick google I assume you also know that the 'shot heard around the world' which marks the start of the American revolution is listed as April 18 1775?
If you post the lyrics I probably won't read them, but if you record yourself singing them I will certainly listen to them

 

The date confuses You? Being attacked then deciding that going to War is you only means of self defense left. Sometime later (no internet, radio , or phones not even telegraph for communication) after the States unified their desires and leadership to fight back and have a comprehensive declaration of rights and government limits to have a stable civil Country based on freedom and respect. Yeah, good plans and democracy take time. I'm sorry that self defense with a firearm and celebrating the first day We declared all men equal and free, are such difficult concepts. Had it not been for the firearm on April 18, 1775 , there would be no declaration of independence in July. To say what you want , you have to be able to back it up. ie. the 1st and 2nd Amendment.

 

I defer to your obviously more knowledgeable insight, AOG. Maybe I misinterpreted the excerpt from BL.

 

Ahhh...i knew there was an interesting conversation for me in here somewhere. So there were a few prior engagements including the offer of peace a year before the declaration.
So for you, are you celebrating the war itself, the belief to fight for what's right, independence, all of the above?
I myself would be happy to identify with all of the above but can't get my head around celebrating the war itself. Your congress asked for peace first, presumably the preferable option? War was not wanted only used if needed?
Maybe it's because I'm not you, but conflating (in my opinion) struggle of will with war seems, well...do you think jihad is necessarily violent as well?
I mean that mindset certainly explains a few things, like the ongoing digs at me in our conversation.

 

I think if someone declares jihad on me , it is in my best interest not to wait to be attacked. My survival depends on offensive self defense. Chew on that for awhile.

 

Prevention is better than cure as they say, then again they also try to convince you you need medication for all sorts of stuff so I'll take that chew with a pinch of salt to make it easier to digest.
Nice talking with ya.