For anybody that thinks America was not founded under Christianity

All three have the ten commandments..

 

They were secularists and had a dislike for religion.

 

Really............interesting.

So how do you explain the behavior & actions of these "Christians" that allowed them to try to enslave Native American Indians that they deemed as heathens & savages? (they actually tried to make slaves out of Indians before they resorted to Africans, look it up)

Or how when that didn't work, the very next best thing to do with them was to march all of them off towards the West in the freezing weather while watching their women, old folks & children die from the cold. "Trail of Tears"?

Or how their "Christian faith" allowed them to come up with the "lovely idea" of going to Africa to buy people to use them to basically cultivate the land, and practically build the country........at the end of a whip while their families were ripped apart and then separated (for profit)?

Or how their "Christian faith" allowed them to make dozens of treaties with Native American Indians only to constantly break them and continually force them from preferable lands to chit-holes?

Or how their "Christian faith" forced these natives into one room schools and beat them whenever they spoke in their native tongue or when they tried to hold onto their culture?

Or how their "Christian faith" waged war against thousands (if not millions) of Mexicans that were living & situated in many of todays southern states, and drove them back down below re-drawn borders that benefited the invaders & victimized the inhabitants that were here first?

Or how their "Christian faith" allowed them to purposely only let in certain segments of people from only European countries in an effort to keep the country mostly "European" during the great immigration wave from Europe years later?

How does any of that fall into any of this:

The Christian's Duty to His Fellow-Men

Romans 12:9-21
Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; hold to that which is good.

Romans 12:9-21 (omitting verse. 11 and 12, for which see below).

The Christian's duty to his fellow-men. In these closing verses of this chapter the apostle sets before us the duty of a Christian man. It is a picture of what the Christian ought to be. What a world it would be if these precepts were carried out, if even every Christian was careful to observe them! Six features the apostle mentions which should characterize our dealings with others.

I. SINCERITY. "Let love be without dissimulation" (ver. 9). Unreality, falsehood, insincerity, untruthfulness, - these are prevalent evils in our day. They weaken all confidence between man and man. They destroy domestic peace, social intercourse, and commercial morality. Truthfulness and sincerity are much needed.

II. DISCRIMINATION. "Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good" (ver. 9). The spirit of indifference is another prevalent evil of our time. "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil." Dr. Arnold at Rugby, trying to elevate the standard of character there, found this difficulty - indifference about evil. He said, "What I want to see in the school, and what I cannot find, is an abhorrence of evil; I always think of the psalm, 'Neither doth he abhor that which is evil.'" We want more discrimination. The young especially need to discriminate in their friendships, and to choose the society of good men and good women.

III. GENEROSITY. "Distributing to the necessity of saints" (ver. 13). In exercising generosity, God's people, our brethren in Christ, should have the first claim upon us. But we are not to limit our attentions to them. "Given to hospitality," we shall show kindness to strangers, just because they are strangers and are away from home and friends. How truly the Christian religion teaches men consideration for others!

IV. SYMPATHY. "Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep" (ver. 15). Sympathy is a Christ-like quality. Sympathy for the perishing brought Jesus Christ to earth. Sympathy sent Henry Martyn to Persia, Adoniram Judson to Burmah, David Brainerd to the Red Indians, David Livingstone and Bishop Hannington to Africa. Sympathy led Mr. E. J. Mather to brave the dangers of the deep in order to do something for the temporal and spiritual welfare of the deep-sea fishermen of the North Sea. We want more sympathy for those near us - for the poor, the sick, the suffering, the careless, at our own doors. We need to learn also how to sympathize with innocent enjoyment. The mission of the Christian Church is not a mission of amusement, but it can show that it does not frown upon, and can thoroughly enter into, the innocent pleasures and recreations of life. We are not only to "weep with them that weep," but also "rejoice with them that do rejoice."

V. HUMILITY. "Mind not high things, but condescend to man of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits." There is too mush pride even in the Church of Christ - pride of rank, pride of wealth, pride of learning. The condition of things so severely satirized and rebuked in the second chapter of James is still too common in the Christian Church. The Church of Christ needs to condescend a little more than it does "to men of low estate." Christian ministers need to think more of the humbler members of their congregations, while they do not neglect the spiritual welfare of the rich. A little more of the humility of Christ would make the Church of Christ and. the ministers of religion more respected among the working classes and the poor.

VI. PEACEFULNESS. "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men" (ver. 1. This peaceful relation may be secured:

1. By not cherishing a vindictive spirit. "Recompense to no man evil for evil" (ver. 17). "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves" (ver. 19). Offenders against peace would do little harm if they did not find others only too ready to take offence. What an example is that of Cranmer! -

To do him any wrong was to beget
A kindness from him; for his heart was rich,
Of such fine mould, that if you sowed therein
The seed of hate, it blossomed charity."

2. By meeting enmity with kindness. "Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not" (ver. 14). "Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head." Your kindness will be like coals of fire to melt his hardened heart, just as Jacob's prudent act of kindness, following on his prayer, turned away the anger of his injured brother Esau. So we may destroy our enemies, as the Chinese emperor is said to have done, by making them our friends. Thus we shall "overcome evil with good." - C.H.I.

 

The difference between Christianity and Islam is like a day and night.

 

You do need to provide links from website you copy this from ...

No one said that Christians that did things you listed were born-again believers.
They were cultural Christians.

BTW, what do you think about Muslim slavery?

 

God is a hard subject, you can say the Christian God and I'd agree sure. I'm more into private meditations and finding my spiritual peace that way.

 

Morals back then were different from today. We as a society learned from those mistakes and have paid the price. It wouldn't make sense to repeat any of those mistakes and we prevent it. I see it now in Germany, the Germans are afraid of being like how they were at their worst and are actually being way too nice. They need to balance that out and realize that being nice and all is good but you draw the line somewhere.

 

Here's the link:
http://biblehub.com/sermons/auth/irwin/the_christian's_duty_to_his_fellow-men.htm

For the record I think that Muslim slavery or any slavery is horrible, and I'm fully aware of what the Muslims did regarding slavery.

Also I'd like to make it painfully clear right here & now that I am "not" slamming all Christians.

I'm slamming the notion that the original people that were here acted or behaved well or Christianly..

It's pretty hard to make the claim the country was founded on Christian principals when the original folks here did so many horrific things.

Know what I mean....?

 

I have to respect most of hat you said because you at least acknowledged the fact the those people did so many wrongs.

Most people in here would fight all of that tooth & nail while denying all of it.

I even partially agree with your sentiment that people should always try to find a balance when it comes to treating others from outside of their borders.

 

I agree.

This one I disagree with. At the time of the Founding Fathers, there weren't public schools or public parks. Speculation on how they would have treated public schools and public parks, with regard to religious symbols like manger scenes or prayer is just speculation. Many of the Founding Fathers were Deists, not Christians.

Freedom of religion encompasses freedom from religion, as well. If you are free to practice religion, you are free to practice no religion. Your right to practice your religion ends where it infringes on mine. Manger scenes, Ten Commandment plaques, and public prayer in school infringe on those that do not practice religion or practice a different religion. Put the manger scenes on the church lawn, let little kids pray silently before a test, and keep the Ten Commandment plaques in your home or place of business. Those are all expressions of religious freedom.

 

Don't be deceived for the agenda at hand. Indians were also human, and one of the, if not the most ruthless savages. They killed each other over land, resources and tribes. If you was of one tribe, another would kill you, given the opportunity. And they would scalp you for a trophy. Whoever had the most scalps, was the greatest warrior. Why does everybody portray America as the bad guys? We are all evil, and have all done stuff that we regret. One cannot live in the past, rather learn and adjust from it.

 

I see what your trying to say. But my religion does not end if it infringes on yours. Rather it cannot be displayed through public means. Other than that I'm free to practice my religion, which is a religion that would not infringe on yours to begin with. It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. If you want to be free from religion that's fine, but your freedom from religion does not require I participate as well.

 

Are you talking about the Indians that if you wasn't part of their tribe, they would scalp you. These Indians was on the same playing field. They would kill other tribes for resources and land, or for just being part of another tribe. This took place before and after the white man. Therefore they only got what they put out. For you to say it was just the white man, is blatantly ignorant. The entire world was like this, and if you stop and look, it still is. So spare me with the white man stole the indian land. The same thing is portrayed in slavery. While the entire world did it, and some parts of the world still do, America seems to be the only one blamed. America stood against the world on slavery. I guess it only goes to show how fast a generation can be taught a lie, and hold it as truth.

 

I can accept that, it makes sense, and holds to their ideology on freedom of religion.

On a side note, outside the debate. I believe the Free Masons were of good intent. It is a secret society from within a secret society (Free Masons), known as the illuminati, that is of evil intent. Albert Pike.

 

I actually think we are saying the same thing.

I have nothing against people of faith practicing their beliefs however they would like to practice them, as long as it isn't in public areas that belong to everyone, including those of different beliefs. My beliefs are personal and I don't share them. I have no problem with religious displays, just not on public property. I have no problem with people praying, just when they ask everyone to stand and join them. I'm not asking anyone to accept my beliefs or join me in celebrating them. They are my beliefs. I think you feel similarly. I'm not putting down your beliefs. I support you in having them and celebrating them, as long as it isn't on public land or in the public arena. I also support those that do not wish to practice any kind of religion.

That being said, my door isn't public and I don't want "missionaries" coming to "share their message" with me either. If I wanted their magazine or message, I'd ask for it. However, they still ring the bell. I am still polite to them, but I don't take their literature. That bothers me personally, but not as much as a manger in a public park. It is their right to ask me if I would like their message, even if it is on my land. It isn't anyone's right to erect a manger in a public park.

 

If I go to a public swimming pool I expect others not to pee in it, because I don't. If you "participate" uncontrollably near me, I will call for chlorine to protect me.

 

Perhaps you should read my quote one more time. I said they formed a nation on behalf of the God of Israel. They knew in forming a nation under a religion, would go against their ideology on freedom of religion. However they did it anyways, but kept it discreet for that reason. I am sure they also believed it wouldn't matter because the God of Israel would stand strong in America, they did not see Christianity becoming extinct in America. Rather they said freedom of religion, knowing what religion would be preferred, in America.

 

It would seem we do agree. The only problem I have is the Christian symbolism that has been in public areas for a long time, why is there all of a sudden this push to be rid of them, and what is the agenda behind it? It baffles me that most people I talk to say they are not Christian, still celebrate Christmas. So they don't believe it, but use Jesus birthday celebration as their own. What kind of arrogance and selfishness (two things against Jesus)does this display on their behalf? And how does a person not feel guilt thereof? Does everybody in America celebrate my birthday? Why then celebrate one, that represents something you do not believe in?

I am not trying to be negative or mean, I just truly wish I could understand the people, that wish to get rid of Christian symbolism, yet celebrate it on Christmas.

 

Agree.
No problem.

I just wanted to make it a point that people who call themselves Christians do horrible things like that go against the teachings of Christ.
And the Muslims who overtake anyone as an infidel are obedient to the Koran.

 

You are correct.

The top echelons of Free Masons were not nice people. They had a global agenda that is different from what it seemed.
Call them Illuminati or whatnot.

But the 90% of all the Freemasons really just join the organization to rub shoulders with important people and get job recommendations.

Thanks,
Ed

 

So! someday in the Future if White people become the minority and Christians are Butched by Muslims the same way Christians Butchered Native American Indians, It's be ok, because Christianity has such a bad history of killing people in the name of Religion. So! we shouldn't feel so bad, when Muslims behead White invaders of the Middle East, because the ancesters of those White invaders have been ruthless in their killing and enslaving people for Christianity

 

I think I understand what you're saying… that Christmas is a Christian holiday and those that aren't Christian shouldn't celebrate it because it cheapens the meaning for Christians.

In America, we've turned almost every Christian holiday into a celebration of commercialism. Christmas is about Santa Claus and Rudolph, Easter is about the Easter Bunny and candy, Mardi Gras before Ash Wednesday is full of debauchery…. but Hanukkah and Passover remain solely religious celebrations. I'm sure there are many more examples, but those two come to mind. The thing is, Hanukkah and Passover aren't celebrated publicly and never really have been. The extent to which they are recognized widely is when people say Happy Holidays versus Merry Christmas, acknowledging that there is more than one holiday celebrated in December. When Christian symbolism was pushed into the public arena, it became less religious. Maybe taking it back out of the public arena will return the religious symbolism to those that don't want commercialization of religion? Otherwise, if it is kept in the public realm, people are free to celebrate it commercially.

 

Why does Christianity require government support to not be extinct? Is it really that weak?

Also, since when does 70% of the population being part of religion make that religion extinct?

 

Seriously?!? "America stood against the world on slavery"?!? Are you (*)(*)(*)(*)ing kidding me?

America was one of the last Western nations to outlaw slavery. Only Brazil and a couple others were later. The European nations ended slavery decades before we did.

If only those Southern Christians hadn't held to their Biblically-supported slaves for so long.

 

Why does this even matter? We no longer live in the 18th century. The Constitution does not mention God or the Bible once. The First Amendment and Article 6 keep our government secular. We have a society of mixed religions. Whether or not America was founded under Christianity is a moot point.