Was Che Guevara a mass murderer?

Discussion in 'History & Past Politicians' started by thatkimjongilisanucklehed, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. thatkimjongilisanucklehed

    thatkimjongilisanucklehed New Member

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    There are many different views and opinions of Che Guevara. Many of the negative views held of him are founded on the premise that he murdered a lot of innocent civilians. Some figures suggest into the tens of thousands, others suggest a dismal 150 victims. What is the truth? Why is there such an incredible discrepancy? Can somebody find me primary sources and actual proof to these atrocities? Can somebody please help me find credible sources? I seek the truth, nothing more.
     
  2. cs42khan

    cs42khan Newly Registered

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  3. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  4. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    As a Trotskyite he believed in perpetual war. That to me is mass murder.

    But then, Saul of Tarsus was a mass murderer and today he is called St Paul.
     
  5. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    According to Christianity, any soul can be redeemed by accepting Christ as their savior; according to Objectivism, any soul can be redeemed by exercising their free will and choosing reason, but only after acknowledging the immorality of their action and paying the price due.

    Perhaps Saul of Tarsus did same, but certainly not Che, the human butchering pig.
     
  6. PreteenCommunist

    PreteenCommunist Active Member

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    How was he a Trotskyist, and how do Trotskyists advocate perpetual war? He was pretty much a textbook anti-revisionist Stalinist.
     
  7. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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  8. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Revolutionists and murderers are not mutually exclusive. Often they are one and the same.

    Being a revolutionary also does not automatically make one a hero or good person fighting for justice. Hitler was a revolutionary.

    Guevera was a murderous and vile torturer. He was homophobic, racist and probably a rapist.

    As the OP points out the numbers vary but there is no doubt he engaged in mass murder, torture and political violence.

    He also wrecked the Cuban economy plunging what was once a prosperous nation which rivaled the USA into decades of third world poverty.
     
  9. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    That depends on whether you read his CIA files or his biographies. He did seem to be kind of a vindictive sort, but he settled a lot of scores carried over from the hugely brutal Batista regime. A lot of those were very well-deserved. There is no way he revolted against morality. Batista is rotting in hell now.
     
  10. PreteenCommunist

    PreteenCommunist Active Member

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    Yeah, that's nothing to do with advocating eternal war. Permanent revolution, as it is generally understood today, is to do with the proletariat completing some of the uncompleted tasks of the bourgeoisie during their revolution and subsequent dictatorship. It's probably not a good idea to take political slogans literally.
     
  11. Zorroaster

    Zorroaster Well-Known Member

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    No doubt he killed a lot of people. Not so many as leaders in the Soviet Union and the US, but he was killed at a young age, cutting short his career.
     
  12. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

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    [video=youtube;1eMLk1nQh5o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eMLk1nQh5o[/video]
     
  13. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    WOW!! I watched the whole thing. I knew Guevara was a spoiled, privileged, rotter but I didn't know he was also psychopathic killer. Thanks for the link!
     
  14. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

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    You're welcome. Stefan Molyneux is fantastic. I don't necessarily agree with him on everything, but he is extremely well informed. Because he does a ton of impartial research on everything he makes videos about. He's very concerned with accuracy.
     
  15. resisting arrest

    resisting arrest Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ernesto Guevara would never had become "Che" if it wasn't for Uncle Sam meddling in Guatemala in 1954.



    [video=youtube;axvxshYPa5s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axvxshYPa5s[/video]

    [video=youtube;pvCAWRU9mzI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvCAWRU9mzI[/video]

    [video=youtube;lOfo6VMFIHM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfo6VMFIHM[/video]

    The United Fruit Co.

    by canonical poet Pablo Neruda (Nobel Laureate)

    When the trumpet sounded,
    everything was prepared on earth,
    and Jehovah gave the world
    to Coca-Cola Inc., Anaconda,
    Ford Motors, and other corporations.
    The United Fruit Company
    reserved for itself the most juicy
    piece, the central coast of my world,
    the delicate waste of America

    It rebaptized these countries
    Banana Republics,
    and over the sleeping dead,
    over the unquiet heroes
    who won greatness,
    liberty, and banners,
    it established an opera buffa:
    it abolished free will,
    gave out imperial crowns,
    encouraged envy, attracted
    the dictatorship of flies.

    Trujillo flies, Tachos flies
    Carias flies, Martinez flies,
    Ubico flies, flies sticky with
    submissive blood and marmalade,
    drunken flies that buzz over
    the tombs of the people
    circus flies, wise flies
    expert at tyranny

    With the bloodthirsty flies
    came the Fruit Company,
    amassed coffee and fruit
    in ships which put to sea like
    overloaded trays with the treasures
    from our sunken lands.

    Meanwhile the Indians fall
    into the angry depths of the
    harbors and are buried in the
    morning mists,
    a corpse rolls, a thing without
    name, a discarded number,
    a bunch of rotten fruit
    thrown on the garbage heap.



    https://informacionlibre2000.files.wor dpress.com/2012/10/gloriosa-victoria.jpg


    Image above: Detail of Mexican artist Diego Rivera's mural "Gloriosa Victoria" (Glorious Victory) illustrating the CIA-backed overthrow of the Guatemalan government in 1954 to the advantage of United Fruit company. Note: U.S. President Eisenhower's face on bomb near dead workers while Secretary of State John Foster Dulles shakes hands with the newly-installed dictator Castillo Armas.



    http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/47/043.html




    "They force [Sister Dianna] Ortiz, who entered the novitiate at the age of 17, to jerk them off and perform oral sex. They hurt her in other ways she won't describe. (The most chilling line in the book is in a different section, where Ortiz, casually explaining her fear of dogs, says, "Dogs were used in my torture in a way that was too horrible to share with anyone. Even now, I don't talk about that part of the torture.") And they put her in a pit of dying and dead people who've already been tortured -- including children. Most damaging of all, they position Ortiz's hands around a machete and force the machete, in her hands, into another torture victim, murdering the woman."

    "I got pregnant as a result of the multiple gang
    rapes by my torturers, and unable to carry within me what
    they had engendered, what I could view only as a monster, the product of the men who had raped me, I turned to someone for assistance and I destroyed that life. Am I proud of this decision? No. But if I had to make the decision again, I believe I would again decide as I did eight years ago."---- Page 2 of Salon.com's review of her book The Blindfolds Eyes



    http://www.salon.com/2002/11/19/ortiz/



    For women, it was an especially violent experience. The commission reports that nearly every female prisoner was the victim of repeated rape. The perpetration of this crime took many forms, from military men raping women themselves to the use of foreign objects on victims. Numerous women (and men) report spiders or live rats being implanted into their orifices. One woman wrote, “I was raped and sexually assaulted with trained dogs and with live rats. They forced me to have sex with my father and brother who were also detained. I also had to listen to my father and brother being tortured.” Her experiences were mirrored by those of many other women who told their stories to the commission.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3NrCYU5zNE

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianna_Ortiz



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClRXV8Ph9pc



    http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/2/7/torture-under-pinochet-we-were-peeling/



    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/11/AR2006121101204.html



    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1570755639/sofa-20/ref=nosim



    http://www.amazon.com/Washington-Co...&keywords=the+washington+connec tion+Chomsky



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNG6xzQu1Mw&index=18&list=PL1IIRVPwL5-UozGolsBS1au55v9-I6Spd



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX9wo0MW0Tw&index=23&list=PL1IIRVPwL5-UozGolsBS1au55v9-I6Spd
     

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