Poll Erdogan out of NATO

Actually your point was that Russian ships were able to transit the canal, the entire time, which is nonsense of course. But, you seem unable to follow a discussion while tracking back to re-examine your assertions. Perhaps like Hansel and Gretel, you should leave a breadcrumb trail back to your original point so you can find it again?

Here you seem to have promptly abandoned it like a red-headed stepchild at the first indication of push-back. A better tactic might be to simply admit it, when you make an error. That's up to you of course.

Good day.

 

Troll, hardly. I'm concerned for the people of Turkey, their freedom, and women especially. Islam is anathema to women's rights as humans. Turkey has made a hard turn toward Islamic ideology.

We're do you stand on this? Or do you not care?

Labour

 

Of course they were. That at some minute point in time it wasn't possible because the Jews were starting a war with Egypt and throwing bombs at the place, to make it unsafe for passage,.. is not Egypt's idea to deliberately block the ships of Russia. Russian ships were always welcome. None of them ships of that yellow fleet were Russian. The names of those 2 ships you mentioned were German. That kind of kills your entire point.

 

Nono... if Erdogan is just like ISIS, than I want some credible source from somebody to back it up,
or I just keep on laughing at the insanity of the post.

It's that fascist part of the army that demands especially women are not to be free of choice if they want to wear a headscarf or not. Erdogan gave them the freedom of choice. lol

 

So, the Westerners support democracy and will of people only when it suits them ??

They have invaded and bombed several Muslim countries in order to free those people from dictators and bring democracy to their lands(That was what they said)

But they support an illegal coup attempt against a democratically elected government in Turkey just because the will of people of Turkey is not inline with the agendas of Western Powers !!

What a bunch of hypocrites !! ...

 

No. The fact that ships were trapped in the canal for over a decade puts an ax to the head of your claim, that Russia continued to transit the canal, while it was closed.

The point being, and I'm not sure even equipped with a map and a compass that you are going to be able to follow this: That waterways can be closed, you are damn right they can be, and Turkey straddles some very critical navel choke-points. So, before we rush into a break with them, we need to think about the 4th and 5th steps down the road.

Do you agree or disagree with that?

 

Over? That's less than a decade.
And again,.. they never intended to close it for Russia at all.
Your entire point is mute

Yeah speaking of compass....
It seems you're not aware that the Bosporus is a heck of a lot wider and deeper than the Suez channel.

I think my first response to this topic was that it's just a superb plan to push a country with the 2nd biggest army towards Russia and Iran.

 

Yes. Expel Turkey from NATO. Followed by the US (self-removal). If de Gaulle could do it, why not Trump?

 

Which Western powers are supporting this coup?

 

I think if they become more belligerent, that they will become more belligerent toward The West, Russia and Iran. Frankly I think the nut that is seizing firmer control could move closer to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, ISIS and the Gulf States. That would not be an insignificant power base for a rising power.

If we can avoid that by maintaining strategic ties with them, I think we should. I think reaching out to Russia would help to keep any plans Turkey may have for expansionism, contained.

 

Last time I checked, Turkey is part of the bombing campaign against ISIS together with the other Gulf States.
/facepalm

Turkey and plans of expansionism?
WTF you on about?

 

I agree . However my point was that no one starts a coup these days without being reassured by the powers that be that they will back their efforts to overthrow a government. Some people within the Turkish Army fell for empty promises and they will pay dearly for it. Erdogan has been given a free hand to completely purge any opposition to his future dictatorial rule. The very Turkish Reichstag Fire of 1933.

 

TPTB ....





10 Shameful Examples of Western Media “Reporting” On Turkey Coup


By Shehzade Mustafa

It is hard to be shocked these days, but sometimes you just can't help but be amazed by the audacity of some of the media. Below is a list (by no means complete) of irresponsible, inaccurate and downright malicious reporting by Western media outlets on the attempted coup in Turkey. It exposes many of them to be engaging in propaganda and duplicitous behaviour that would be unbecoming of even a high school newspaper.




The Independent has been working hard to be as biased as possible against Erdogan. Here they are putting quotation marks around the word “treason” because apparently a deadly military coup against a civilian government leaves some room for doubt on whether it is a crime against the state.






The Telegraph (amongst many others) got to work early quoting experts trying to legitimise the army faction and their actions by labelling them “guardians of Turkey's secular constitution.” Rather than present them as traitors to their uniform and their nation, noble intentions were being ascribed to one side.






The New York Times decided that the early and confusing moments of a coup would also be the perfect time to remind everyone of their obsession with Erdogan as a uniquely authoritarian leader. Again, the legitimate government of Turkey was being painted as somehow not so legitimate thereby attempting to soften the blow of the putsch.






The Times of Malta decided to go even further and along with other publications, started tweeting an unnamed EU source saying that the coup was “likely to succeed.” The unverified nature of the comment and the sheer lack of journalistic integrity of publishing it at such a sensitive time is a gross betrayal of journalistic responsibility. Surely, this helped the coup plotters immensely in their goal to give the impression they had won.






Sputnik News from Russia was never going to be impartial, but presenting people who were risking their lives demonstrating against the coup as “celebrating” it is straight out2 of the propaganda books of the USSR. Again, publication after publication are pushing a consistent line that is pro-coup and anti-democracy.






The Daily Beast and many other publications outdid themselves by this totally unsubstantiated and untrue message stating that Erdogan had sought asylum in not one, but two European countries. In fact, as they were tweeting this – Erdogan was landing in Istanbul despite bombs reportedly going off there. As they and other journalists know, if Erdogan had fled the country then forces loyal to the government may well surrender thinking that all was lost. Despite knowing how high the stakes were, they persisted in publishing this blatant lie and still haven't the decency to apologise or to investigate who fed them this misinformation and why.







The strapline for the VOX is “understand the news.” What it should say is “understand the news, the way WE want you to understand it.” They put out this piece relying on the short attention span and lack of information that many readers would be coming at the developing situation in Turkey with. Instead of providing “a clear guide”, they put together a hack job that included such clearly biased opinions ....


This is not unbiased journalism. This is propaganda masquerading as journalism.








FOX News did what it does best. When a guest was presented with a struggle between a legitimate government the they don't like and a brutal military coup that would lead to instability and tyranny, they chose the latter. Well, at least they don't pretend to be fair and balanced.







The Independent (again) took it one step further. They put out an article discussing a lunatic conspiracy theory that the whole thing was an elaborate hoax by the government just like the Nazis did previously (!) Apparently, if it is anti-Erdogan then even the craziest, most xenophobic and irresponsible views will find a willing home in the Independent





Finally, now that the coup has been thwarted, many commentators and publications went back to their favourite past-time – complaining Erdogan was too authoritarian and ruthless. I mean, it's not like there was a coup attempt against him, his residence was surrounded by tanks, parliament was bombed and policemen were being murdered in their headquarters?


Oh wait. That is EXACTLY what happened.

To be clear, all the above does not mean that he is a saint. He is a politician and like any politician he has he has his faults and dealings in the murkiness of politics. These issues – whether the handling of the Kurdish terror threat, the economy, stifling the media – should be dealt with like they would in any country that these publications are based in – through the ballot not the bullet.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Counter and call out this propaganda and ask some serious questions as to why do they all seem so keen to have this leader, this government and this country fall?

After all, as Malcolm X said:

“The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.”

 

Birds of feather always flock together. It doesn’t come as a surprise that Pakistani Sunni Islamists will go into extraordinary lengths to justify anything their fellow Sunni Islamist Erdogan does in order to become a lifetime dictator and turns relatively prosperous secular Turkey into another Sunni Islamic hellhole.

 

Sir, if that was directed towards me, let me tell you that I'm not a Sunni Islamist, And I'm no fan of Erdogan either. Pakistan was the first country in the world to add prefix "Islamic" to its republican status in 1956 (and subsequently Islam was declared the state religion in 1973). Who would know better than us that how dangerous and deadly this "combo" is ... Mixing religion with Politics is always a bad idea. And Turkey under Erdogan is surely going down that road. BUT the point is Erdogan has been democratically elected and the People of Turkey themselves have given him Mandate. If it's the will of the people, let it be. They will understand (and repent) one day. Let it come to them. No one, whether a Turk or not, has any right to illegally overthrow a democratically elected government, or support such an action in any way.

 

And you know that they support Islamists too and out of 10 bombing F-16's of them, 8 are bombing PKK and not ISIS?

Are you really so unaware of the Turkish plans and goals to have more influence in the region? It is not the case that they want to build up a new Ottoman Empire by conquering other countries, but they want to be the 1st power in region and this includes Ex-USSR Republics in Caucasus too for example.

So unfortunately this coup was utterly lousy done and not successful. Anyone who tells that Erdogan is a democrat has lost any sense of realities and so this coup was anything else, but no attack on Turkish Democracy.
And yes, Erdogan was democratic elected, but this was once in the past another one too and this person was Adolf Hitler.

 

John Kerry Threatens Turkey With NATO Expulsion
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-18/john-kerry-threatens-turkey-nato-expulsion

See also:

Gulen Movement Clinton Campaign Donors
http://www.slideshare.net/GulenCemaat/gulen-movement-clinton-campagn-donors