And Turkey enters war in Syria...

You live in the most hypocrite country in the World but asking for Russian political movements. Ofcourse any country in the World will try to wearing down its opponents by various ways. Media is one of them.

 

If Erdogan and Assad make peace, Turkey and Russia will be totally in same side.

Because Assad do not want a Kurdish state as well and ISIS is the common enemy. Russia wants Turkey to make coordination with Assad.

 

They do not train them as well as you do.

Their soldiers do not wear YPG uniforms as well as American soldiers do.

 

backstabbed? how?

There was once hope that Turkey could be a member, because religion didn't play a big role. But now, with islamist erdogan, Turkey is making a very big deal out of religion. Had Turkey just kept secular and kemalist, we'd have no problem having you in the EU. But it seems turks don't want that. You cannot ever hope to be part of europe if you're islamist, no way.

admirable, but why don't you keep building on that kemalist legacy, instead of turning to islamism? Atatürk knew that the cause for turkey's failure was with islam and with the east, so he look to the west, and tried to make Turkey a european country. now you are doing the exact opposite, looking to islam and the east, away from the west. Atatürk would be horrified.

What makes turks stand out from the rest of the middle east is their secularism. You had a chance to become europeans once. Now it seems you will just become middle easterners. You'll become like the arabs, the iranians. congratulations.

Even if Turkey completely cut ties with the west, I don't know what we could possibly do to give turkish kurdistan independence. A war with Turkey? That would be a very bloody war. With the current turkish regime, the only thing that could give independence is if we went to war with them. I don't think turkish kurds are going to get independence any time soon.

From the west's perspective, the kurds are behaving very well. They are civilized, and good allies. In our eyes they have definitely earned their right to independence, and proven they are responsible enough for statehood. it's not up to us however.. much of kurdistan is in Iran and turkey.. and they don't want to give it up. So unless we want to go to war for it, it ain't gonna happen.

important differences from Israel and the jews is that the kurds are actually the majority in many places, and have actually lived there continuously, and are muslim like their nieghbors. everyone would still be angry though, but atleast we wouldn't see a sectarian conflict.

 

LOLZ

Well, the "octopus" can't be the United States. We're the giant omnipresent and omnipotent SPIDER that sits in the center of the worldwide web of conspiracy that runs through every nook and cranny on the planet.

Did you know we're behind the earthquake in Italy? It's true - I oversaw the entire operation myself...

 

Then the regime change freaks are just a myth? Interesting!

........
Hee, hee, hee! You're such fools!

 

Photoshop 7.0 - It's all the evidence you'll EVER need!

 

Seems for quite some time now American help is not enough to get independence from someone.

 

Who these trolls? Who changed their minds? Explain, please. Show us who changed.

 

could be

 

Prove it. We are not Islamist.

Having a secular regime does not mean people become ateist or stop praying.
Secularism is for the state, it is not for the people. First you have to bear this on your mind.
Turkey is a secular country.

Erdogan did not do anything against state's secular regime. Erdogan himself, is a conservative man that's all. In USA, republicans are conservative. That's similar.

Even if Turkey completely cut ties with the west, I don't know what we could possibly do to give turkish kurdistan independence. A war with Turkey? That would be a very bloody war. With the current turkish regime, the only thing that could give independence is if we went to war with them. I don't think turkish kurds are going to get independence any time soon.

Civilized ? In which measures ? Hahaha
Anyway we have already knowy PKK, PYD are the fabrication of West. "divide and rule"

But If Turks let Kurds to have their own state and make population exchange. (Turks in east to move West, Kurds in West to move East) trust me, in 3 days they will start to eat each other.

Because the Kurds of Turkey are real burden for Turkey's economy. Turkish Kurds mostly uneducated and very poor, they do not serve economy. They do not manufacture and the most important thing is most of Kurds do not pay the tax.

Therefore, Kurds will each other, If Turks let them to leave from national integrity. But even PKK changed its mind, they don't separation any more. They want autonomy and self-determination and they don't want to pay tax to Ankara. T

Actually I really want separation. I don't want live with Kurds and I don't really undersatand why our government do not give up the Kurds, they are useless and burden.
We and they should go their own way. And you know nothing, Swedish guy.

Jews and Turks one of the oldest parties having deep relations each other.
During history some Turkic tribes also converted Judaism, such as Khazars.
The Kurds had no state organization conscious during history. They had been living as nomadic clans in the mountaions of Iran and Turkey until mid 20th century. They never had a independent state and still most of them have chieftains. If you buy the chieftain you also buy whole subject of that chief. This is not real state conscious. Ottoman Turkey ruled the Kurds by giving some autonomy to chieftain of Kurds. Karaite Judaism is a Turkic sect of Judaism and Karaites are Turkic Jews of todayso don't worry about that. We have always had relations with the Jewish community and Ottomans were heaven of Jews.

 

unfortunately, octupus is Pentagon. You have destroyed our trust. This is not a joke.

You supported the coup, your media having fun against Erdogan and supporting the coup plotter during 15 June.
Even Putin called Erdogan very before NATO countries after coup attempt.

and now you have been beating about the bush to not extradite terrorist b.astard Fethullah Gulen. You have been feeding him with your hand. So you are the octopus, you are the tricksters.

You know me more than 3 years Talon. I had great love your country but now I lost all of my love.

Because Obama administration is lying and your soldiers have been wearig YPG uniforms in Syria, you armed them. You have been feeding our enemies and you firstly allowed/shut your eyes ISIS to expand its area and then you put the Kurds to have those lands. Both of us, now, you have been trying to create Kurdistan and ISIS was the pretext for that. That why Turkey made operation to Jarablus. We won't allow such Kurdish corridor to open Mediterrenean, at a push we will create relations with Syrian government and improve our relations with Russia. ( We have been talking with Syrians as well http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160826/1044655984/turkey-syria-secret-talks.html )

Because you sold us, you backstabbed us. Hereafter, we need witnesses about our alliance and strategic partnership.

 

you are ruled by the AKP, and they are islamist.

turkey was unique in the middle east because their politics were largely secular. I don't mean the state, I mean the political parties. Turkey used to be kemalist, i.e secular nationalist. Today turkey is islamist, following AKP. Turkish politics is no longer secular, you have a major islamist party in power. AKP is a relatively new phenomena. islamism hasn't been so powerful in turkey before. The old secular turkey is being lost.

and now turkey might get a civil war. congratulations turks, you've handled the situation beautifully

 

No they are only conservative and religious. they want moral conservatism, literalism, and they actually want Islamic values but they do not impose other people. This is also not weird, our population is 99,8% muslim. In Germany christian democracts exist. Shall we call them as christianist ?

For example AKP does not prevent me to drink beer, or having sex without marriage. Gays and Lesbians in Turkey can go their bars can be a couple easily. AKP does not also interfere women to wear hijjap/turban/burka etc. Therefore Turkey is not similar to Iran or Suudi Arabia where the state impose Islamic values to citizens for all the sphere of daily life. AKP is not islamist in practical way, saying "Turkey is an islamist country" is urban legend.
AKP is only equivalent to christian democracts of Europe.

Oh you are a very bad guy, first time I had to advocate AKP even I hate them. This is because of you.

 

look, there's only one thing you need to agree with me on: Turkey is changing. Do you agree with that?

you can say AKP's islamism is benign, maybe it is, but the point is that turkey hasn't been ruled by islamists with this much power before. Turkey may still be largely secular, but at what direction is it moving? Is it moving towards secular democracies like europe, or is it moving to become more religious like the rest of the middle east?

 

Yes, Turkey is changing, we are turning our face to Russia.

Before AKP, Turkey was ruled by Fazilet and Refah parties, they were the government. They were pro islamic at least and as well as AKP is.
So I am not worried about. Our regime will be always secular. Quran does not write anything about state regime, so we decide it.

Your ideas depend on urban legends and populist stories. We ruled middle east whole Arab world at least 500 years with shriah law until World War I. Arabs and Arab comprehension never affected us. Ottoman Shriah had no stoning, hand cutting punishment or we did not kill the homosexuals. Homosexuals were always free and first secular state understanding was borned in Ottoman Empire during Shriah time.

Turkish comprehension of Islam and Arab/Iran comprehension of Islam were always different and separate. Your worries are in vain. Even in dark times, Turks do not produce religion based paramilitary forces while others(Arabs) do.If Syria and Iraq had different religion they would have violance again.

Centuries ago, during babylon time in Middle East, they had same comprehension as well as ISIS has today, their shriah law understang is almost same with babylon law also.

Before Islam Arabs were killing female babies, still their mind same. They see women as good even today. This not about religion this is about structre of society. I am very sorry for having same religion with those people. We are different societies. We will never be same, never!

 

indeed you are.. but why? haven't russians been accusing turkey of being terrorists? didn't turkey shoot down a russian plane? Russian supports Assad.. I don't understand why Turkey would want to turn to Russia.

We can atleast hope that.

I'm actually a fan of the osmanli devleti.. a shame you got rid of the padishah.

yes, turkey has had a different kind of islam. I'm just worried Turkey is becomming like arabs. Turkey is good because it has managed to combine western with islam.. I just don't want that to fail.

 

The coup plotters hit the Russian plane, but the Turkish government had stood behind that event on that time. Today Putin knows the reality. We cleared generals in military who attempted to coup in 15 June. Russians reacted and so they started to do smear campaigns. But now, Turks and Russians have been repairing the relations because we have to make cooperation. It is better for the region.

Since we participated NATO, we always tried to be a good ally, we always obeyed what the west desires. But what Turkey gained with this alliance ?

For example You said stop trade with Iran. Our economy affected in negative way, that f.ckd our economy. We also destroyed our relations with Syria administration because of our alliances wanted us. We sold out Kaddafi because our alliances wanted us!!! Kaddafi was one only guy supported Turkey during Cyprus operation and supported Northern Cyprus Turkish Republic. This is shame! Now, libyans hate Turks.

European Union accepted Greece and Poland easily,, Greece was the terrible country before joining EU. Greece is economically burden for Europe as well as Spain, Portugal, Bulgaria etc. But EU has convinced Turkey more than 50 years. You never wanted accept Turkey to EU honestly, but EU negoitaions were used to Turkey not to turn East (Russia). Why don't you be honest ? If we go referandume at least 70% Turks will say no, for the EU. So stop blaming AKP. We know everything as nation.

 

the coup people shot down the plane? But why did erdogan stand by it then? He even refused to apologise

what did turkey gain from NATO? this is very ironic but the answer is: protection from communist Russia.

Are you saying Turkey wants Iran to get a nuke? Start an arms race and then everyone in the middle east has nukes? Is that really what Turkey wants? ffs, stop painting it as if the deal with Iran was for the west. It was even more in Turkey's interest.

we shouldn't have let greece into the EU tbh.. bloody greeks are the worst. ungrateful, irresponsible, oniomaniacs.

 

Communist Russia helped Turks during war of independence after World War I. Russians gave us many many weapons and we kicked British and Greeks troops out. And Turks indirectly helped Russian revoluation by fighting agaisnt allied powers in Dardanelles. British Empire, France could not send aid to Czar of Russia by passing Turkish straits. Communist Russia was not our enemy, but we also did not want to be communist.

We had been accepted NATO for our military force for Korea War.

There is no reason for Iran to send nukes to Turkey. We are not enemies. 18 million Azerbaijania live in Iran, they are shiite Turks. We are speaking same language and sharing same ancient history, so significant people of Iran are our cousins actually and this affects politics of Turkey. Turkey and Azerbaijan are countries like Norway and Sweden and Iran and Turkey is like Finland and Sweden.

Israel, USA, France and North Korea, China everbody had nuclear experiments. There is no reason to be against Iran's nuclear studies.
This is double standard, you hate Iranian governement because they have Islamic Regime. Be honest swedish guy, be honest.

 

Typical nationalist bull(*)(*)(*)(*). It's everyone else's fault aye?
Turkey has itself to blame for where it is... As much as I was sympathetic to Turkey joining the EU 15 years ago as critical I am now. Turkey does not belong in the EU.

 

15 years ago I was sympathetic to European Union but I understood that you convinced us.

Remember, a few months ago we made readmission agreement with European Union for Syrian refuges in turn visa-free travel for Turkish citizens will be applied by EU countries. Look at yourself! We welcomed more than 3 million syrians for in sake our promise, you lied!

We kept our promise, but you beat about the bush. So we are going to abolish readmimmission agreement. This is the result of your breach of contract. I like only Sweden in EU, their government are honest.

 

Well... Your first mistake is to think that 27 members all are in agreement. They aren't.
Turkey under Erdogan has more than once proven that you will not follow EU law nor do the necessary reforms to join. The refugee crisis should not be used in this context and there mere fact that you have done so is just another nail in your coffin. Visa free travel? I doubt it will ever come to pass... Especially now that Erdogan is purging all opposition.

Turkey hasn't kept many of its promises the last 15 years. It has even rolled back on some of the progress. Your nationalism is blinding you as it always does.

 

Erdogan's Islamist AKP is because of the EU. It was the EU to tell Turkey that she must abolish Kemalist restrictions against democratic movements of "conservative" Turks. In the early days of AKP, Erdogan was the biggest supporter of European Union in Turkey. Otherwise Kemalist Turkey would have banned AKP for their Islamic tendencies.

Now Erdogan holds the power. Everyone now realised that Kemalism is not that bad. It's true that Turkey is still fully secular. Erdogan couldn't touch it. And in book AKP isn't Islamist, as it's impossible for a Turkish political party to be Islamist. Though Erdogan has quite bold Islamic rhetoric. And his people are not really that secular. I see there's definetely a risk that Turkey might lead to more of an Islamic country. This is no joke.

Now Erdogan doesn't seem to give a **** about Turkey's entry into the EU. The Turkish secular ideology was definetely suggesting that Turkey should be part of the West. See my thread in another forum:

http://historum.com/middle-eastern-...thoughts-turks-part-western-civilization.html

Now it's a different story.

 

First of all, my friend, let's get our facts straight.

The Commander in Chief/Chief Executive/President, Barack Obama, commands the Pentagon and our intelligence services (the CIA, NSA, etc.). Unlike some countries, our military is not an independent entity that operates above and beyond the control of our civilian authorities. Therefore, your nefarious "octopus" is Barack Obama and the people who serve in his administration. The Pentagon, NSA, CIA, et al, are all merely the tentacles of that "octopus".

And you're correct that I was joking, because I believe the conspiracy theories implicating the U.S. in the ham-handed coup attempt in your country are a joke, and until I see credible evidence from credible sources I will continue to consider those conspiracy theories a joke. My position on this has been reinforced by the statements of your own government's officials, such as Erdogan's spokesman Ibrahim Kalin who said "We don't think that the U.S. has any involvement in the coup attempt." If anyone in Turkey would know, it would be Erdogan.

Furthermore, one has to ask themselves why would Obama participate in a coup to overthrow the democratically elected government in Turkey? What are his motives - what does he think he has to gain?

I realize that Fethullah Gulen is a huge political figure in Turkey, however, he is an insignificant and unimportant figure in American politics. He is not someone who is even remotely worth ruining our relationship with Turkey nor do we have anything to gain from installing him in power. The Turks who subscribe to the conspiracy theories that the U.S. would back an attempt by Gulen to overthrow your government are wildly over-exaggerating his importance to our country and its interests.

As for myself, in light of the facts that Erdogan has engineered phony coups in the past (i.e., the Ergenekon "coup"), that the convictions in the trumped-up Ergenekon "coup" and the trials associated with it were recently overturned and that the recent coup was the most feeble, half-hearted and inept attempt I have ever seen, I suspect that Erdogan was behind it. Furthermore, the extent of the crackdown that followed the coup only reinforces my suspicions.

Of course, all of this is pure conjecture, but I thought Erdogan was behind the Ergenekon "coup" and look how that turned out.

How, exactly, did anyone in the U.S. support that coup? If you're going to make such an accusation you should have the facts to back it.

I didn't see any of our media "having fun against Erdogan", much less backing Gulen. Who are these media outlets you are talking about?

And he did it out of the goodness of his heart, not out of the desire to drive a wedge between the members of NATO.

It's true he's here, but how is it that we are "feeding him with our hand"?

And while I would be glad to see Gulen expelled from my country because he's not worth the problems his presence here is creating, I have to wonder why the Turkish government hasn't presented the Obama Administration with a case that is so incontrovertible it would compel Obama to extradite him?

I've known you for a lot longer than 3 years, TB, and when we first met you didn't seem to love my country very much. Perhaps, I have confused that with a dislike for our government, which is something I would never hold against you because I despise the Obama Administration myself. Thankfully, Obama and the incompetent idiots who surround him will be gone in 5 months.

That being said, I derive no joy from the negative feelings that Turks are now harboring against my country because of this coup, and what bothers me the most is that those feelings are based largely on conspiracy theories not facts. As for Gulen, I would be glad to see him leave the U.S..

Yes, Obama is a liar - I know this better than you do - but I would like to see the evidence that U.S. soldiers are wearing YPG uniforms in Syria. There's no reason for them to do so.

As for arming the Syrian Kurds, I wouldn't doubt that's true, but who would you suggest we arm in the fight against ISIS? You know as well as I do that he's not going to arm Assad, so that leaves who? That leaves your country and the Syrians who are opposed to ISIS.

First of all, it was Obama - not America - who shut his eyes to ISIS because he is an Islamist sympathizer who doesn't want to continue the fight that Bush began against jihadist groups after 9/11. Obama won't even utter the word "Islamist" and engage them in the ideological war that the Islamic State is waging against us - he has completely ceded that battlefield to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's death cult.

However, I have also read that your own government has been playing a double-game with ISIS. I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about that.

As for letting the Kurds have the lands they occupy, we're not in a position to guarantee them anything, and that includes an independent homeland.

ISIS has never been the pretext for creating Kurdistan. The rise of that organization has been the product of the Syrian civil war, the al-Maliki government's alienation of the Iraqi Sunnis and Obama's abject unwillingness to take matters into his own hands and cripple that organization when our military had an opportunity to do so. The situation in Syria and Iraq is just one of Obama's many foreign policy failures. His foreign policy, in general, has been a complete disaster - it has harmed the U.S. and its allies while it has strengthened and emboldened our enemies. It's no wonder why many Americans consider him a traitor and why so many of our allies are reassessing their relationship with the United States.

We have not sold and backstabbed you, and I hope that in January 2017 we will have an administration that won't continue the Obama administration's myriad mistakes.