The real election surprise? The uprising of the American people

Good comparison.

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Please tell us how a republic differs from a democracy and how that is relevant here.

 

Hey---BO- Diddly----Great tune----Now, that tune can replace the tune that has been in my head---the Cubs song----

 

Quite right and I could not agree more. I have said basically the same thing here, many times, but it was less well written.

If we had real journalism today, this would have been talked about regularly in this election cycle, and yet it has not been talked about, in fact, it looks like great pains were taken to ignore it, perhaps in fear it might grow even more.

This movement from both sides of the spectrum is not going away. We saw something similar during the economic suffering of the great depression, when socialism and communism were new, and there were both of these anti capitalist movements going on in America. It has been written that FDR saved capitalism, by reigning it back in, by managing it, by demanding business, big business and banksters be satisfied with a reasonable profit with social responsibility to the society, instead of maxing out profits at any cost. For the other option was socialism or communism, from the bottom up, which the rich elites of course did not want.

We are once again at a place where the excesses of the elites are creating economic suffering regardless of what the cooked stats tell us. Economic suffering and insecurity of millions of people makes them start to pay attention to what the political elites are doing, and not doing. We begin to notice the corruption, the criminality, the total lack of representation of the common man and the urge to change this begins to grow. This is what gave us sanders and trump, and yet the media has totally ignored it. On purpose, IMO, for they are a part of the corrupt establishment which takes away what the press is supposed to do, to speak truth to power, to stand up to corruption.

What is hard to understand for me is that the establishment is comprised of educated elites, and yet they seem totally ignorant of the history of what happens when they operate in the manner they are operating. It always lead to revolt, even violence, if the changes cannot come at the polling stations. Trump may not be the best person to do as FDR did, to take on the status quo which is the cause of most of our problems. I am not saying that the person who must take this corruption on has to be politically like FDR, for it can be done differently, as long as the cause of the problem is attacked, addressed and done away with. And the root of the problem is the same as it was during the gilded age, which lead to the crash and great depression. The elites have once again taken over gov't, legislation, policy, by using their money to buy it. This was common during the times that preceded the crash of 29.

If you want to drain the cesspool it will require campaign finance reform, attacking the graft and corruption in DC, ending open borders free trade which is the creator of problems here, as well as problems elsewhere like south America, which created illegal immigration to the US as these people try to survive what globalization is doing to their own nations, and their own people. And the big banking cartel, cabals have to be once again regulated so they serve main street instead of the dangerous collusion between big banks and MNCs, and as you wrestle back the tremendous power these men have upon our politicians.

The American people are fine with rich elites as long as these elites do not create economic suffering for the common man. There is no class warfare as long as the upper class is not creating suffering for working americans. But when these elites create suffering, insecurity, by maxing out their own wealth with no consideration for what they are doing to the environment, or to the society in which they live, it is untenable. And one would think these elites and their puppet politicians would understand this, given it has happened before, and yet they seem to be ignorant to it.

 

I think the left wants people to revolt. Give them there next excuse to attack our second amendment.

 

Oh he's not a politician. By Jove you're right! He couldn't be a corrupt man or part of the system if he's not a politician! Politicians and folks in private business never have anything to do with each other's worlds.

It'd be different if, say, he was part of the rich elite whose wealth and power mean there is a revolving door between the public and private sector. It's be a whole different scenario if he wasn't regularly existing in the same world with the same people as those in government.

But you're right, he's just plain old super rich real estate, hotel, and casino mogul Donald Trump.

I'm not a Ron Paul supporter(the guy was a century too late), but even I'll say Ron Paul's character spoke to who he truly was.

Donald Trump's does too, but his supporters have learned to ignore that uncomfortable information because Hillary.

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I think you want the left to revolt so you can start firing 2nd amendments at them for real.

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But...the Democrats don't say we should be like China, North Korea, or Cuba....

You made that up.

 

What I said has nothing to do with with whether or not the left is the establishment. I'm not drunk on some fake narrative where I think the left-wing are the heroes who stand up for real American values or something, fighting against The Man(R).

Whatever you consider the establishment, regardless of which party you think it is(it's both), Donald Trump is as much a part of it as Hillary Clinton. They've just occupied different positions in it.

 

A Democracy is dissimilar to a Republic form of government. The chief characteristic and distinguishing feature of a Democracy is:

Rule by Omnipotent Majority. In a Democracy, The Individual, and any group of Individuals composing any Minority, have no protection against the unlimited power of The Majority. It is a case of Majority-over-Man.​

A Republic, on the other hand, has a very different purpose and an entirely different form, or system, of government. Its purpose is to control The Majority strictly, as well as all others among the people, primarily to protect The Individual’s God-given, unalienable rights and therefore for the protection of the rights of The Minority, of all minorities, and the liberties of people in general. The definition of a Republic is: a constitutionally limited government of the representative type, created by a written Constitution--adopted by the people and changeable (from its original meaning) by them only by its amendment--with its powers divided between three separate Branches:

Executive, Legislative and Judicial. Here the term "the people" means, of course, the electorate.​

Accordingly Democrats as we see, have become the majority thus imposing upon the minority their values and ideology. In this case their power to control the minority and thus the majority has unrestricted power over the minority. A republic limits the power of government by the Constitution and law.

I've attempted to make it as simple as possible, however there is a lot more to why a Republic as established in the U.S. is much better than a Democracy that tends to and leans towards Socialism.

 

I agree with the article you have quoted mostly, because not only in the USA we have the phenomenon that the people in our democracies have more and more a deep despondency against the politicians and politics in general.
Here is right this class of our current politicians in our countries to blame for this development. One point which many people say is:

“Why shall I go voting please? It does not matter whom I vote, because I see no serious and real differences between them and no one stays really for what I do think at least!”

This is a dangerous development at least, because this despondency opens the gates for the sort of rat pipers from left and right, when they take all these topics up which are more or less ignored by the people which are the soil of democracy at least! I call these people seriously “rat pipers”, because at least they do not want to change the democracy to a better status! No … They want to get rid of democracy and consolidate their own power!

We have enough examples in democratic countries where right this happened:
- Turkey with Erdogan who wipes out any opposition against him, particularly after the failed coup against him.
- Russia with Putin who hindered democratic opposition, reducing freedom of press, speech and attacking groups against him
- Hungary with Viktor Orban who reduced freedom of press drastic and so eliminated tools of opposition
- Poland with Beata Szydlo and also Jaroslaw Kaczynski who wiped out Constitutional rights, fight Constitution court and reduces freedom of press drastic, particularly these independent media they don’t like!

We have to take attention that our well-reasoned anger about the political class does not cause a new modern type of dictator.


However … your personal critics on Obama I cannot follow in general. No, I’m no follower of fan of Obama, but someone has to stay honest in his critics. Looking on Obamacare, it had in reality no way of any chance to have success. One hand the political enemies of Obama hindered and reduced the program at least to a joke … and there is a general skeptic view (not to say often hate) against anything in the USA which is of any sort of social = socialistic = automatically bad!

Also … the high debt is more caused by Bush with his wars and lousy politics which cause the crash of 2008 and so much of it … but not all … has to be blamed on Bush Jr., because Obama earned the growing mess which as not created by him and his administration. That his handling of this mess was not really OK and could have been better is clear … but who blames Obama for it, must blame Bush in same way and the often told “excuse” that he was in war with terror is BS … because Iraq 2003 had nothing to do with 9/11 issue!
Bush doubled the debt form 5,457 billion to 10,720 billion …. Under Obama it grows up to 18.992 billion in 2015. Looking closer on it about 2,000 – 3,000 billion (digits differ from source to source) under Obama are caused by the crash of 2008 where Obama had no guilt for, but where Bush administration has to blamed for.

 

Discontent without a cause is not an uprising. It's a riot.

 

I assume that people who claim that the US is not a democracy, but rather a republic say that a Rav4 is an SUV, not a Toyota.

 

Not that it will happen, but the military might not completely side with the civilian ruling class. Obama has done plenty to (*)(*)(*)(*) off the top military brass.

 

I assume you are oblivious to most distinguishing characteristics involving complex subjects.

 

No, I'm pretty well versed on this subject matter. The term "democracy" is pretty loosely defined term. Generally when used as a noun, it refers to a state where elected selected and removed by a vote of the electorate. The term "republic" is also is quite open-ended. It refers to a state that does not have a monarch as its head. I think that the OP should be using a few more adjectives to differentiate the terms. Usually when people claim that the US is not a democracy, they mean that the US is not a direct democracy. Most of us on this forum live in states where we delegate authority to representatives. The term is representative democracy.

Republics can be democratic, like Germany, or not democratic, like Iran. Non-republics, (Monarchies) can be democratic, like Sweden, or non-democratic, like Thailand.

For a good read try book IV of Aristotle's Politics.

 

He is spot on saying Trump did not create the movement we're witnessing today but that the movement chose him as their vehicle because he's not afraid to confront the establishment "status-quo" and all the corruption that goes along with it. No matter what happens in this election, it'll be interesting to see the next chapter in this story.

 

Unfortunately, the wisdom of the people has been fading for years. Entitlement and the idea that those who have succeeded must have stolen from those who have not, has created a dependent population that is becoming increasingly easy to manipulate into selling their own power over their own lives.


From Carl Sagan, (1934-1996) one of our most brilliant scientists, quoting from a book he wrote in 1994::

I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...

The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance”

 

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But...the Democrats don't say we should be like China, North Korea, or Cuba....

You made that up.[/QUOTE]

Actions speak louder than words.

 

I agree. Any reasonable candidate with some government experience and without Trump's baggage would win this year against Clinton.

 

No has claimed that America has remained a Republic. Democrats have from the beginning worked hard to change that. Why do you think Democrats call our sysytem of government a Democracy, when it was not designed as such?

 

Marie Antoinette expressed very similar feelings....

 

It must be sad to be part of the Dark Side.

 

Democrats worship the Cuban medical system, where hospitals can't even get band aids and aspirin.