Likeliness of Death (Illegal Immigrants Don't Make the List)

No one hates legal immigrants, but illegal immigrants? Yes.

 

There are lots of people who hate legal immigrants many people on this thread are arguing that immigrants are not dangerous they simply overrun our culture or get to vote. And I'm afraid you're missing the point of the thread. The point is that terrorism and death from illegal immigrants, even when looking at the most outrageous inflated statistics, are not much of a threat compared to so many other things.

 

I hate to see how you would react to the worst threats. Oh right you just take away Healthcare.

 

Depends on what you classify as a "disease" - old age can be considered a disease

Plus since when do we do nothing about trying to prevent and cure disease?

 

You're getting bullied for being racist? Do you think that's unfair?

 

Huh? Not quite sure what you are trying to say. But anyway...I dont think it's a matter of "fair". This sort of behavior from the Left is just uncalled for. They can't act civilly in debates and they always resort to ad hominems and name-calling.

 

Not name calling - asking a question and I think a fair one

 

Sorry is the vast confusion at airports the media's fault? IT WAS A POORLY CONSTRUCTED AND ILL THOUGHT OUT MESS

And that was down to Bannon - oops I mean Trump

 

I was not talking about post #80. Many many pages ago he called me a racist (or some such).

 

Well, love for legal immigrants comes with a caveat. They must assimilate and become American, like the immigrants from Germany and Italy did so well.

 

Multiculturalism has to be a 2-way street - especially where one party insists upon carrying on their more bizarre traditions and customs (which causes social frictions), and refusing to assimilate - otherwise it simply doesn't work. I believe we're about to discover that the hard way.

 

You know, I think this is a wonderful question. I began to think about what principles specifically, and I realized that whatever I came up with were going to be minimized and debated by you. You'd probably say that those weren't your principles and that our country votes for this or that... Overall I would be cast into a light that was unpatriotic.

So I would like to present to you a letter written by L. Robert Kohls. I feel like he very artfully explains American values. I particularly like the comparison in the summary section between American values when compared to values of other countries. I think these values will likely resonate with you more than anything I could write. You most likely have some sort of appreciation for these values, but for some reason you do not want others to have them.

Specifically look into Personal Control Over the Environment, Change, Time and Its Control. Those are the sorts of things that make up the American "Pull Myself Up By My Bootstraps" mentality. I doubt you disagree with that principle. I just don't think you see the significance of a refugee or a immigrant. They often go through much harder times than you do to get a slice of our opportunity. They are willing to work harder for the same positions, and they have to work harder because of their disadvantages. Which is another principle on the list: Competition. A successful immigrant is an underdog story in my mind. Then there is equality, which I assume you do not like... or individuality.. the idea that a terrorist is not the same person as a refugee, and not all illegal immigrants are bringing crime (other than entering the country).

Again, the point that really drives these things home is the opposite chart in the summary. You don't believe in equality, but do you really believe in a hierarchy? Should our social classes be well defined or static? In our society any person has the exact same rights, regardless of race or status. If you do not believe in individualism, do you believe in group welfare? As in do you really believe that all people in your group should be given favor based off of nothing other their the luck of their birth place/race? How is that any different from fate? Do you really believe you are fated to be better than another person simply because of things that you had no control over?

 

What problems are you having with them? I live near Detroit, and I can choose to go to Mexican town or Greek town... when my family moved here about 110 years ago they moved to Czech town, which is no longer a thing. But honestly, what do you care? Why do you need to control someone else? To me that's not American. We're the land of the free, not the land of what Texas Republican likes.

 

You called yourself racist... Is the problem the attitude with which I say it?

I get why you would like to avoid ad hominem attacks, but the thing is, if you claim to be a racist and someone calls you a racist, then it's not much of an attack anymore.

Also, racism is a philosophy, so if I call you a racist, that's not like calling you stupid. I cannot actually measure your intelligence level and compare it to mine. However, we can have a discussion on the validity of the concepts of racism. So while I may say "you're a racist" and you may dislike the way I'm saying it, it's not different from the derogatory way that Republicans use the word "liberal", and while I think it's rather petty for Republicans to throw that term around like it's some sort of bad thing, and I think it's petty for lots of liberal to throw around "racist" against people who don't actually mean it, if you are a "racist", then that's clearly what you're going to be called. The real question is why you back down from it? I assume it's a lack of commitment on your part?

 

Good post and perfect example why illegal immigration needs to be stopped!

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Diseases

 

The diseases posted above were only those that killed in large quantities. The only disease on their list that corresponds to my list is viral hepatitis, which kills 8,000 more annually. The article you posted gives a figure that one out break infected 650 people, but only four died. Let's assume that all 1.3 million infections were caused by the illegal immigrants and add 8,000 more deaths due to disease, and let's double that just to be sure that we capture all other diseases not listed... you are now at 21,000 annual deaths due to illegal immigrants, which takes you to a grand total of 0.92%. In other words, using extremely inflated numbers, you are almost 1% likely to have an early death from an Illegal immigrant, but you are still 28 times more likely to die from cancer and 38 times more likely to die from heart disease. oh, and just for fun, you're also 95 times more likely to die of some other type of disease not listed.

So again, try to focus on the actual argument I am making. I am not advocating freely allowing illegal immigrants to travel here. I am saying that we should put money where the actual problems are. In other words, let's not spend billions of dollars on a wall that has zero ROI when we could spend that money on healthcare... the thing that is actually killing people. Of course, you will not address this part of my argument because you are simply trying to justify hate...

 

My principle is that US Immigration policy should be determined by the interests of the native born. I believe I have a duty to preserve and defend the Western way of life. The very principles you espouse come from Western ideas; to allow unrestricted immigration from alien cultures undermines those principles.

I think there is a big difference between luck and fate. If I win the lotto I don't think I was fated to do so. And I don't see any principle that requires me to share my winnings with the losers. We are not "given" favor, we just happen to have it. Beautiful people have an easier time in this life. It is not fair, but that doesn't change the facts and it certainly doesn't require beautiful people to make themselves ugly because their advantage is unfair. At least I don't think so. And I don't think that the native born are required to lower their standard of living to give the foreign born a chance.

There are a billion people out there who would immigrate to the US given the chance. We can't give them all a chance.

(By the way, you might want to check out Rawl's idea of the "original position.)

 

The interests of the native born? That is exactly what fate and hierarchy are. You are giving preference to people born here over people who are willing to work hard for success. You favor luck vs. merit. And you do realize that the people born here are no longer white people, right? Last year was the first kindergarten class had more non-white children than white children. In a system where privileged are always given favor over the poor, you have a system where income mobility is static. Equality is an essential principle for the American dream. If you have any doubt about it, just look into what our founding fathers thought.

Do you agree with the idea that hard work should be rewarded? If you do, how do you reconcile the idea that white people / western values are better than others? If a non-white/non-western person does something well, shouldn't they be rewarded just the same?

And where do you draw the line? Mexicans are westerners. Their origins are from Spain, and they're from North America. Most of our legal and illegal immigrants are from Mexico... so where's the line drawn? What is "western" to you?

 

I didn't mean to say that YOU yourself personally used the term "racist" to smear me. I meant to refer to the liberals (most, not all) who do have the tendency to call people with dissenting views nasty names like "racist", "bigot" in order to shut them up and/or to shut down debates. Also, when I use the term "liberal", I also do not use it in a derogatory way like you suggested. It is just one of many ways of grouping people. When I see someone behave in a typical liberal fashion, then I tend to call that person a liberal. And yes I am personally prejudiced against liberals however the way I use the term, is not meant to smear them or bully them or to shut down debates.

And no, I should hope that I was not "backing down" from it. I am a racist and I am not ashamed to admit it. In fact, I encourage more (White!) people to do the same. There is nothing wrong with being a racist. And if you think I "lack commitment" on this front, then I guess it's time for me to amp up my racist efforts and rhetoric...

 

I agree that liberals do that. However, I don't think they're confronted with very articulate arguments, and their non-articulate responses... fit. If someone screams, "We need to protect our families from illegal immigrants!" I do not think "You are racist" is a less articulate response. That's my personal opinion. I know that the arguments against illegal immigrants is deeper than that, but most politics, particularly online, is debated like the Youtube comments section.

Well then bringing up the fact that others might be offended by being called racist is sort of irrelevant.

I pose the same question I wrote above to you:

"Also, racism is a philosophy, so if I call you a racist, that's not like calling you stupid. I cannot actually measure your intelligence level and compare it to mine. However, we can have a discussion on the validity of the concepts of racism. So while I may say "you're a racist" and you may dislike the way I'm saying it, it's not different from the derogatory way that Republicans use the word "liberal", and while I think it's rather petty for Republicans to throw that term around like it's some sort of bad thing, and I think it's petty for lots of liberal to throw around "racist" against people who don't actually mean it, if you are a "racist", then that's clearly what you're going to be called. The real question is why you back down from it? I assume it's a lack of commitment on your part?"

 

The aim of US governments (of all levels) should be for the general welfare of their people. It is not the moral duty of Americans to reward foreign nationals, no matter how hard they are willing to work.

This is a sad thing. I don't know about you but I personally don't want to live in a world without White people.

Are you referring to the way Americans not wanting to import more third-worlders?

I think having income mobility is a good thing, but it's probably not the only consideration when it comes to selecting immigrants.

It is an American concept anyway.

Some Mexicans have partial white blood however most of them are mixed. They are not "pure" Whites.

 

The line is drawn at the Rio Grand. Mexicans are Native Americans, mostly. Their religion is a syncretic mashup of Catholicism and older native religions.

Hard work should be rewarded. Let it be rewarded in their native countries and let our native citizens be rewarded in our country. White people and western culture has resulted in the society we live in now. It apparently is better because all these non-white foreigners want to come here.

That there are more non-white kindergartners than white ones is a calamity. I have serious doubts that Mexicans are capable of maintaining a high tech society. The Mexicans haven't been able to do it in Mexico. They will just swell the ranks of the underclass leading to even more inequality and social dysfunction. Civilizational decay will accelerate You may discourse all you like on the virtues of equality, but equality is not a fact. Inequality is.

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Let me ask you this: do you believe in labor unions, the worker's right to control the supply of labor? I do. If you do, why do you support the importation of foreign scabs?

 

That is how you become a third-world nation. We should take the best and brightest for our own enrichment.

You completely ignored my point and make up some sort of really silly science fiction reply. Please address the actual principles.

I'm actually talking about principles. It had nothing to do with race at that point. Simply that merit is what should be rewarded.

It is an American concept...

Again, you're completely ignoring the argument I made. Do you think that merit or race is a better determination of success?

Here, I'll give you this on a level that you might be able to actually understand... since you didn't seem to understand my initial argument.

A racist who prefers white people would think that Larry Bird (or whatever white person you prefer) is the best basketball player ever, despite the fact that his accomplishments are not as great as Michael Jordan (or insert any black person you prefer). A racist who prefers black people would assume that only a black person could ever hold the top spot. A race aware person realizes that black people are better at basketball due to some physical characteristics, but they also acknowledge that a non-black person might be able to knock Jordan off the thrown. I personally never make any assumptions based on appearances. I know that a five foot person can dunk if they really want to, and I know that if I treat certain groups with preference/disadvantage simply because of something superficial, then I have used a shortcut and made an assumption. I don't put myself into that situation because I do not take shortcuts.

 

I do not appreciate your insinuating that I am stupid. Insulting another poster (via indirect ways) is against the rules on this board. I hope that we can all behave civilly towards each other on this board. This is how productive debates happen. Besides, have you thought about that maybe the reason I failed to get your point is because you have not crafted your arguments in an understandable way? This is possible.

 

Is that how you deal with members of your family? Would you pay for college for a stranger who has more merit rather than your own son.