The American War: The US In Vietnam

Gibberish and false.

You think ignoring it makes it go away and not a real threat, and you like to repeat the propaganda they peddle just fine.

Actually it does mean you support communist imperialism, by looking the other way and spreading their propaganda for them.

You didn't; you couldn't make anybody feel stupid, except yourself.

 

It sits across the major Asian shipping and trade lanes, which is why we were there. Not as glorious as 'saving the world from Hitler' or anything, but just as critically important nonetheless to hinder Soviet control of those lanes. They already threatened the Suez at the time as well. They would have threatened and extorted most of the world from such a strategic position, capable of strangling major economies and industrial power at will.

 

No, honestly, I really don't care about your dead .
It was a long time ago, I didn't know any of them and they deserved to die because they took part in a stupid war that was fought for stupid reasons.
They "were only following orders" comes next, the excuse used by the Nazis to make mass murdering civilians reasonable.

I don't ignore communism, I'm very clear in my condemnation of that especially stupid ideal.

Supporting communism is telling the world they're a set of idiots without a clue - Yep

Ah, the signature of an idiot.
You assume I like the idiocy we know as communism because I dislike America's mass murder as well.
Sorry dude, it's the mass murder I'm against, not just mass murder by one side.

 

Cambodia and Laos are right nearby vietnam and they DID fall to communism

 

(from post #39)

Tell us if you think what these guys say reflects reality.

http://michaelparenti.org/Imperialism101.html
https://fas.org/man/smedley.htm
https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

Do you maintain that the above is propaganda?

 

And the rest?
Local conditions in a few countries doesn't mean the same conditions occur in the rest, as is proven by none of them accepting communism.

 

Cuba became communist - Did The US of A, Mexico or ant of the others in the region?

 

It proves the domino theory was correct

 

Given the rest did not when the communists beat the US, I think we can safely say it was wrong in an epic fashion.
You lost 60,000 people and billions of dollars for a grand total of nothing.

It could be argued the US were actually pretty stupid because they lost so much with absolutely nothing gained, but the reality is US policy in the region is absolutely moronic as you're now arming the very communist government that killed so many of your people and made you look so silly.
Superpower 0 - Communists 2

Perhaps you could explain how arming and assisting the communist government that cost you so much in people and dollars is a good idea, and how that doesn't crap on the graves of all the dead Americans your government sacrificed to political stupidity.

 

No one said it was an endless progression the fact is it DID happen

 

So America became communist because Cuba did?

 

No laos and cambodia did because vietnam did

 

So you admit the domino theory is wrong, or did the US and Mexico became communist?
After the US defeat, did Thailand and other countries in the region turn to communism?

 

it was correct and that part is proven

 

Given the US conducted massive terrorist attacks in these countries, they could simply have turned to communism because they'd seen what the American version of capitalism had done to them.

 

It would seem not as the US and Mexico didn't turn to communism, nor did other countries in the region after your defeat.

 

It was not specifically about them so it would seem it is.

 

Nothing you have posted so far is anything more than cookie cutter 'anti-imperialist left'. I've been around it all my life & it bores me to tears. This stuff is more of the same. I thought it was cool when I was an undergrad, then I learned to think like an intelligent adult.

If you want to have a discussion about the Vietnam War then show me that you have enough knowledge on the subject to conduct an intelligent conversation. If you think a guy who died 20 years before US troops arrived in Vietnam, an apologist for Communism & genocidal former Communist dictator and a guy who I'm not aware has written a thing about Vietnam are going to help then think again.

 

You're not going to impress the viewers by avoiding questions. That was a legitimate question. I await your answer.

 

Ending the Vietnam War, 1973-1975


Newly elected President Richard M. Nixon declared in 1969 that he would continue the American involvement in the Vietnam War in order to end the conflict and secure "peace with honor" for the United States and for its ally, South Vietnam. Unfortunately, Communist North Vietnam's leaders, believing that time was on their side, steadfastly refused to negotiate seriously. Indeed, in March 1972 they attempted to bypass negotiations altogether with a full-scale invasion of the South. Called the Easter Offensive by the United States, the invasion at first appeared to succeed. By late summer, however, Nixon's massive application of American air power blunted the offensive. At this point, the North Vietnamese began to negotiate in earnest. In early October, American and North Vietnamese representatives met in Paris. By October 11, they had hammered out a peace agreement. Its key elements were: all parties would initiate a cease-fire in place 24 hours after signing the agreement; U.S. forces and all foreign troops would withdraw from South Vietnam no later than 60 days after signing the agreement; American prisoners would be released simultaneously with the withdrawal of American and foreign forces; and a National Council of National Reconciliation and Concord would be created to organize and oversee free and democratic elections to determine the political future of the South.

The agreement represented a victory for the North Vietnamese but also it seemed to provide an honorable way out for the Americans. Nixon quickly approved the terms. On October 22, however, South Vietnamese President Nguyen Van Thieu stopped the process in its tracks. Especially infuriating to him was the cease-fire in place. It left thousands of North Vietnamese soldiers in South Vietnam (estimates ranged from 140,000 to 300,000) well positioned to continue the war when the Americans departed. To gain Thieu's support, the Americans reopened negotiations with the North Vietnamese based on his objections. This so offended the North Vietnamese that they too insisted on renegotiating several settled issues. By mid December the talks had collapsed.

Diplomacy had failed and a greatly frustrated Nixon concluded that only force could persuade Hanoi that negotiating with the United States was preferable to continuing the war. The President ordered his military commanders to mine Haiphong Harbor and to initiate a sustained air campaign in the Hanoi-Haiphong region. Beginning on December 18 and continuing for 11 days, American bombing attacked all significant military targets in the region. Even though the targets were military, the aim was psychological—to shock the North Vietnamese back to the negotiations in a frame of mind to end the war. On December 26, the North Vietnamese signaled their willingness to be agreeable and to meet in early January. After 3 more days of bombing, Nixon ended the air campaign. Nixon also believed that the bombing would remind the South Vietnamese that American air power was the most powerful weapon against the North Vietnamese, and that its continued availability was contingent upon South Vietnamese support of the agreement.

Nixon's plan worked and in early January 1973, the Americans and North Vietnamese ironed out the last details of the settlement. All parties to the conflict, including South Vietnam, signed the final agreement in Paris on January 27. As it turned out, only America honored the cease-fire. Furthermore, the National Council of National Reconciliation and Concord was stillborn. The North wanted to destroy South Vietnam while the South wanted to defeat the Northern forces. The inevitable solution, therefore, was to fight until one side won. Military facts on the ground, not words on paper, would determine South Vietnam's future. Additionally, within 24 hours of the cease-fire coming into effect, the return of the almost 600 American prisoners began, as did the redeployment home of the remaining American and South Korean troops in South Vietnam. The January accords, titled the "Agreement on Ending the War and Restoring Peace in Vietnam," neither ended the war (except for the United States) nor restored the peace. A little over 2 years later, 30 North Vietnamese divisions conquered the South and restored peace in Vietnam. The American commitment to defend South Vietnam, described as unequivocal by Nixon and Kissinger, had been vitiated by the Watergate scandal and Nixon's subsequent resignation. By that time, the Paris Accords seemed memorable only as the vehicle on which the United States rode out of Southeast Asia.

https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/dr/17411.htm

 

My reading of Nam is that Sth. Vietnam asked America to come in to help stop commie infiltration, and America said yes.
Problem was that the gutless US admin wouldn't give Gen. Westmoreland a free hand; he said afterwards- "Washington locked me into a defensive strategy, thereby preventing me bringing the war to a swift conclusion".
This guy also makes it clear it was the meddling politicians who lost the war, not the military-
"The American military was not defeated in Vietnam. The American military did not lose a battle of any consequence. From a military standpoint, it was almost an unprecedented performance"- Prof. Douglas Pike, University of California, Berkeley

Below- Da Nang area 1965

 

Utter rubbish.
The thing that stops communism is common sense. That especially pathetic attempt at a political system only takes hold when desperation allows it to sneak in, either because of poverty, terrible leaders or external influences, the latter being either interference from a powerful ally that promises defence against an aggressor or an invasion.
Eastern Europe went through invasion, the US mass terrorist bombing campaign didn't hurt the communist movement in Laos and Cambodia.
Other countries weren't infested with communists because the US didn't attack them.

Vietnam has the same communist party as before but now has a milder version that allows business to thrive and foreigners to enter and live there.
Korea, just to prove my point, has a closed society that can be very dangerous for foreigners.

The difference - America kept pressure on N. Korea but Vietnam is an ally (Even though they killed 60,00 of your people).
America didn't cause the war in Vietnam but it made it far worse than it would have been had you just left it alone.

 

Restored peace - something that generally happens when the US leaves town, and something that would have happened far sooner and a lot less dead people earlier had America not invaded.

 

Did the 60,000 dead Americans or countless dead Vietnamese civilians win?

 

I concur, 1965 is when the photo was taken.

Three U.S.Marines likely Arty FO's or NGF spotters.

I know exactly where that photo was taken from.

It's a Marine OP just south of the Marble Mountain Air Facility (MMAF). It's where all of the Marine helicopters were based. All of the Marine and Air Force fixed wing aircraft were based at the Da Nang Air Base.

The photo was taken facing north.

You can see an airfield in the distance that looks like it's still under construction because by 67 it was a huge facility. That's the Marines Marble Mountain Air Facility.

Just further north along the coast from the MMAF is China Beach R&R Center. The mountain at the top and to the right is Monkey Mountain. It's where all of the com antennas and Marine HAWK SAM batteries were located.

Just south west of Monkey Mountain was the city of Da Nang.

Not shown in the photo just west of MMAF was the Da Nang Air Base.


Better view of the map -> http://www.jamercer.com/jsrvn/maps/DaNangMktMt-020.jpg