The new French president?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Canell, Apr 24, 2017.

?

Who will be the next French president?

Poll closed May 6, 2017.
  1. Macron

    14 vote(s)
    46.7%
  2. Le Pen

    15 vote(s)
    50.0%
  3. I don' really care

    1 vote(s)
    3.3%
  4. None. The world will end till then.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's the opposite in America. The left wing viciously attacks our first lady with sexist and hate-filled comments.
     
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  2. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    It's not Muslims, it's Islam which is the problem.
    You can try to justify fascism and find noble fascists (I'm sure there were ones), but it's still fascism.
    So, trust me, it's not hard to demonize the devil.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  3. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    The final run-off will be exciting to watch.
     
  4. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    Yup.

    If LePen could get to 45%, it would rank as a shocker.
     
  5. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I said it was impossible, but finally it doesn't seems that impossible. Macron electors seems slighty less motivated. It wouldn't be impossible some of them would not go to vote.
     
  6. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    "It's not Muslims, it's Islam which is the problem." (?) What a strange, puzzling statement!

    Islam IS Muslims, and, Muslims ARE Islam. EACH of them, and and BOTH of them is/are the "problem", and it is a problem that isn't going to simply 'go away' on its own.

    When we fully realize what Islam is, and what it commands its "faithful" to do to all "infidels", then and only then can we know how Islam and its faithful Muslims should be dealt with: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

    Question -- would it make any difference to you whether you were thrown to your knees and beheaded by Islam, or, by Muslims?

    [​IMG]."Is it a Muslim knife, or an Islamic knife? Who cares?"
     
  7. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Islam is not monolithic.

    I'm myself surprized to have to defend islam, I hope it will not happens too much.

    When you live in a country where muslim represent 5 to 10 % of the population, you have just two choice : civil war or find a way to co exist.

    Their is better solutions than civil war, for now.

    Seriously, did you ever talked with muslims ? Met many of them ? Their religion is a cancer, but they're not rezumed to their religion.

    By the way, I prefer that their is no muslim migrant in my country, at least, until the situation of terrorism is cleared, which unfortunately could take some time.
     
  8. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    I view Muslims as victims of Islam. Much like a man under spell or a slave. I wish they would wake up and see Islam for the barbaric ideology that it is.
     
  9. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :frustrated:
    You have no way of knowing that? I would say 'some of them are willing, some are UNwilling, some don't care, and some are complicit'.

    Nobody is demonizing the 'nice' Muslims; the trick is to recognise the good ones from the bad ones??

    And how many Muslim families could afford the costs of putting their children in boarding schools, especially when - as is often the case - they could have as many of 5 or 6 children?

    Do you have any idea how much such a project would cost the French taxpayers in terms of setting up and staffing the infrastructure, maintaining and heating the buildings, monitoring and recording progress or lack of it, transporting them 'back to their families during weekends', then making sure they return to the institutions every Monday. And all this in addition to the costs of imprisoning the hardened Muslims criminals in the penal systems, and the court costs which put them there, and the possibility of radicalization whilst their in prison . . . it goes on and on? France would become a bureaucrats' heaven. :mrgreen:

    And who would decide if they had developed the required standard of 'good behaviour'? And what would happen if the military boarding school authorities decides that they haven't reached the required standard, thereby prompting the inmates to launch repeated appeals against the decisions in order to be discharged and be with their families?

    No, legalizing mind-altering substances is never a good idea - the problems of alcohol is bad enough without adding to them. I don't think you've quite thought this one through??
     
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  10. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Are you happy with Trump? if yes, then be better quite, because what is the real difference between him and Macron for what you blame Macron now ... aside different branch of business?

    And btw ... who rules the USA? Wall Street, eh?
     
  11. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    The topic of this thread concerns the new French president, not the President of the United States -- BUT -- it is true that we have a central banker cartel that rules the economy of the United States, much as you have in your new 'pan-Europa'. Our economy is completely dominated in every important aspect by this Federal Reserve System, whereas you in 'Europa-utopia' have your European Central Bank.

    Our President Trump? He can't do anything about the "Fed" (as we call it). It was brought into existence by a hare-brained liberal Democrat American president named Woodrow Wilson, 103 years ago. Your European Central Bank is much younger, but its effects on European countries has been even more dramatic.

    Back to France, we both know that Marine Le Pen hasn't got a chance. She stands for what is good for FRANCE, the ordinary French people, French values and culture, and the French economy. These are all part of what the internationalist criminals that control whole countries through banking systems are working so hard to destroy, replacing the "France" that existed for over a thousand years with another unidentifiable emulsification of enlightened post-Renaissance Western Civilization and the ruined, wretched cultural and spiritual poison of Africa and the Middle East.

    You in Germany, and far too many French, have been lulled into lassitude, complacency, and ennui with the narcotic of persistent, life-draining, nation-destroying Socialism. You in your new 'pan-European' paradise have convinced yourselves that you can't survive without the European Central Bank and the European Union telling you what to do every moment. Thus, at least the deluded French voter should be happy and unsurprised when Macron wins next month's election. His election will merely bring more servile bondage to 'pan-Europa' -- as usual....
     
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  12. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting comments ... far away from truth in majority of points.


    ECB has right not the same saying as the Fed and this is right the problem why Greece went into trouble too, because a strong Fed would not have let in Greece into the EUR zone!



    Le Pen is simply a hidden Nazi and not more or less as that. Today are the times over where this righty scum trumbles on the streets and shout their BS ideology … they make it far smarter.



    Nation destroying socialism … interesting term! Still a cold war dino who survived in his hate of anything with term of social = automatically socialism = communism = evil?

    Well … what your so beloved US system of free market cause we see day for day with Trump when he fights the outsourcing disease to prevent that plants go to cheaper countries, eh?

    Sorry, failed! Even our “Social market economy” is for sure not perfect, it works quite better for the people as the US system by facts!
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  13. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was talking about the one I met.


    The one who respect the laws and the people of the country and the one who don't.

    The aim would not to make them pay the biggest part of that (only food and clothes).

    A lot, but the problem is already here.

    t

    That kind of things should be paid by the families.

    We have already that cost.

    Unfortunately, it's already that.

    Military discipline can break any little thug. That's the tragedy of nowodays, we forgot how much discipline and order are good values, the best ally and the worst ennemy of the democracy in the same time.

    Their is already tons of people smoking cannabis either the governement make it legal or not.
     
  14. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Why do you say Le Pen is a Nazi? Just because she is an ardent defender of French values, culture, her own people, and the traditional French way of life? Does it make a person a "Nazi" if he loves his country and tries to defend it against forces that are trying to enslave and destroy it?

    Sometimes I wish that I could simply go back to the estate of an old friend of mine in Königswinter and remain there. I used to drink wine in the Ahrtahl, and buy my Birkenstock sandals in Bad Honnef. There was a huge Naturpark near the Drachenfels that we used to spend hours in, enjoying the peaceful, beautiful German countryside. I LOVED Germany, the German people, and everything about your country. My own ancestors came from Germany to America about one hundred years ago, and if it were just a little bit less difficult for me now, I would seriously consider going back there, become a German citizen, and just ride one Bummelzug after another, going everywhere, and seeing everything.

    Do you love Germany, Mandelus? Would you be angry with someone if they called you a "Nazi" because you love your country? Do you like what Merkel is turning Germany into, and the horrible problems everywhere, from Köln to Garmisch-Partenkirchen, and Berlin, and much further beyond.

    At least, can you understand the agony and frustration that true, loyal, patriotic French citizens must feel every day of their lives? Macron will do nothing to make the lives of ordinary French people any better at all. He'll be a true internationalist, doing the bidding of the ECB and the EU. I feel so badly for all of you in Europe, and I can only see too clearly how wise the British are to get rid of the whole 'pan-Europa' thing.
     
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  15. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Because she is a Nazi in sheep clothing and her patriotism is only the cover and not more to get votes of patriots!

    I live in Cologne ... so I know what you mean! ;-)

    Militarism, Patriotism and Nationalism in his sick forms was us Germans bombed out thoroughly and ended on March 8, 1945 after we followed such a sick scum which was democratic elected in 1933 for 12 years with right such sick slogans!
    Le pen is simply a hidden Nazi and so far right, more right is not possible! She did everything to silence the right wing around her father in the party front National with their real sick slogans where even you will not deny anymore that they are Nazis.
    Aside the point who she will catch votes with her smart slogans, anyone who believes she will do better will face the truth like Americans in the USA with Trump!

    You remember the annulation Climate protection agreements by Trump with what he want to create more jobs in coal mining industry, because so the coal power stations will use their coal? Sold and unfortunately bought as a good thing, but in reality only good sold hot air which will improve simply nothing! No, I do not come with the ecological aspect as a reason, but with tough business! US power stations that use coal, take much cheaper imported coal from China and not US coal ... and did Trump tell, announce or whatever about this real problem which hurts US coal mining due to pure capitalist and economic fact ... like putting an import tax on foreign coal? No, totally silence here!

    Same is with Le Pen in France given with all her promises, because if you take them and look deeper into them, they fell apart like the example at Trump above! This all combined with fueled hate on aeverything foreign and putting all guilt for all problems on immigrants and the evil EU! But that ... for example ... 80% of French farmers will be bankrupt without the EU ... not a single world about!

    Again ... ECB is not comparable to the FED and because she isn't we have right the problem with Euro and issue like Greece. In other words: The ECB lacks to have the necessary and important counterweight to often stupid politics! With look on Greece it was the guilt of politics that they could enter the Euro area by ignoring and playing the 3 monkeys about real deficit what Greece had and the nonsense they made... and ignoring all warnings from ECB too!

    So yes, I can understand people with their anger into the political establishment, because this anger is really valid. But then to vote dangerous dumbasses instead is no solution or do you really think that an election of the devil is the solution?
     
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  16. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    I must confess, Mandelus, you make several very interesting, probing points and I cannot deny them. Indeed, you are much closer to the realities and problems associated with the EU than I am.

    We Americans live in a state of constant propaganda bombardment so thorough and pervasive that it is often difficult to know even what to base understanding of issues upon! Your example of the "3 monkeys" is especially accurate, but I cannot see how either Germany or France will benefit from dragging along unproductive "dead-weight" like Greece (and some other countries).

    We obviously disagree about the issue of the huge wave of Islamic migrants into Europe and the disastrous effect that is having upon all of you. Unlike many others who examine this "problem", I see Islam ITSELF as being the core-issue! Le Pen criticizes the Muslim influx, but I really feel that none of your European leaders really confronts the central thesis that Islam ITSELF commands its followers to force all of us "infidels" to convert to their religion, or be abused, tortured, and murdered!

    So, was sollen wir tun? If Le Pen or any other leader says, "Ban Islam!", then everyone will be alarmed and say that this is exactly like what the old Nazis said so long ago when they said that Judaism was a dangerous religion that threatened German core values. And, as you probably know, in the 1930's, many in France believed this also!

    The huge and obvious difference is that Judaism and the Jews that practiced it in Europe never went about murdering people in order to meet the commandments of their religion! Thus, anyone who tries to equate Judaism and Islam IN MODERN TIMES is making a great, fundamental error.

    If you really do strongly believe that Le Pen is a Nazi, then I must reexamine my own thoughts and understanding of her. It is more difficult for me to understand France than it is for me to understand Germany. Truthfully, I don't even like France, or the French very much. The French have acted in such a negligent, introverted, and almost masochistic manner ever since they lost the Franco-Prussian War in 1870. Here in America we've always looked down our noses at the French, and laughed at them, even though their help was essential when we broke away from England. I like good French red wine and cheese, but German white wine is far better, in my humble opinion.

    I will continue to read your posts with interest, Mandelus. Perhaps I can learn something from you. But don't worry, for surely we do agree on one thing -- Le Pen will not (NOT) win the upcoming French election!
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
  17. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As a french, I tend to think that french and american mentalities are on some point opposited.

    Since we're a republic ?
    1870-1914 years were not that bad, even great if you consider from a art, cultural, point of view.

    However, 1870, 1914, 1940 showed that the french elites were unable to adapt. 1870, 1914, 1940 were the consequences of the same problem : extremly old generals unable to adapt their tactics to modernity.

    However, somehow, I tend to think we never really succeeded to find a good replacement model instead of monarchy.

    We're too among the population who became the least faithfull. I'm myself athee, however, I tend to think that faith and spiritualy have a key-role in a society.

    That's not that sure. I first said that the difference was too big. But if we look closer, Le Pen voters seems to be more motivated than the Macron one.
     
  18. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting post in a number of ways. And, yes, France did seem to flourish (as did most of Europe from about 1880 until the start of World War I). It was an almost impossibly wonderful time, from what I have read, but it was followed by what was perhaps the most uselessly stupid war in the history of mankind. World War I made less sense than a bunch of angry children fighting in a schoolyard.

    But, I'm very curious -- do you, as a French citizen, think that Marine Le Pen is a Nazi, or that she espouses Nazi-like philosophies?
     
  19. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The story of her parti shares link with nazism and among the founders they were sympathiser nazis. Her dad had many times some ambiguous declarations. However, I don't think Marine Le Pen is. She did great effort to get the parti less extremist and banned some people who did the nazi salute.
    Furthermore, it's one of the only french politician who is for the referendums started from popular initiative. Fascist or nazi don't tend to think we should give more power to the people.

    However, her parti is extremly corrupted, maybe one of the most. Furthermore even if she banned some dudes, their is still a lot of mad guys into.

    The FN (her parti) on some points can be paradoxal, you can have neo nazis into it, but too some gay people who often don't like that much the homophobic muslims.

    The right hand of Marine le Pen, Florian Philippot is gay. It's not really nazi to accept gay people.
     
  20. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would say that the death of France really started in 1918. At that moment, we developped a really deeply pessimist, hopeless vision of the world. We can't prevent the death of civilization, retard it yes, prevent it no. I will probably not know what would appear thereafter. I hope however that our architectural, artistic and musical legacy will be preserved.
     
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  21. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Although I am certainly not an expert on French history or culture, I think that I can agree with you. This is a very powerful, meaningful post you have written, and it resonates with truth and reality, as I understand them.

    It is poignant and arresting to think about France, a country that was once perhaps the greatest empire on Earth, being reduced to ruins and a creeping, despairing ennui. It makes me think of Rome, and the idea that Romans in the Fifth Century A. D. may have said things almost exactly as you wrote here. One thing you wrote in particular had quite an effect on me: "We can't prevent the death of civilization, retard it yes, prevent it no." I will spare you my personal ideas about reincarnation and religion, but I suspect that you and I may be in closer agreement than either of us imagines....

    It is interesting to remember that even Hitler used to muse to his architects Speer and Troost that he wanted the huge buildings of the Third Reich to continue to be beautiful ruins in a far-distant future, presumably long after the fall of Germany. Evidently, even this 'Führer' understood instinctively what Arthur C. Clarke would write a few years later in his under-appreciated masterpiece, "Childhood's End"... "... the stars are not for man."
     
  22. Dropship

    Dropship Well-Known Member

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    I'm not an expert on French politics, what do each of them stand for?
     
  23. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    France needs someone like Charlemagne, and these two clowns don't cut it. Generations of Euro-trash liberalism have finally come home to roost and these are the candidates that are going to save France from itself? If I was French I'd invest in a comfy prayer rug and some knee pads...
     
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  24. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    France is a great contry, rich history, excellent farm land and climate, beautiful people.
    It would be a disgrace to let the gypsies of Allah steal it.
    Get a grip, man!
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
  25. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    Well, Macron is something like David Cameron and Le Pen something like Nigel Farage. :razz:
     
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