Question for Bernie Sanders Supporters

I'm not confused. There is already a very defined spectrum. Making up different lines is definitely not the answer though. Also if that is really the case, Bernie is about as democratic as you can get. You might have some sort of case for the self loathing though.

 

It is the inherent injustice of capitalism that provides the seed from which socialism grows. Socialism always grows out of capitalism. Georgism is the only merit based system, providing the strongest of producer incentives, because it rejects the establishment of government sponsored privilege. If you want to stop socialism, your best bet is to start preaching GEORGISM. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism

 

I can't believe you actually believe that about Trump. He is just another corporatist putting him far far left than anyone "actually" in the left, on that line of yours.

 

Bernie always made the distinction that he supports what he calls Democratic Socialism, and specifically not European Socialism. What he is really after is the vast separation of wealth between the uber rich and the rest of us. He never said he supports a socialist state.

https://berniesanders.com/democratic-socialism-in-the-united-states/

Sanders has the problem of not recognizing that the majority of voters aren't sophisticated enough to understand his position.

... as can be seen by Trumps election. A large number of voters want a schoolyard bully who says things that make them feel empowered - in 140 characters or less.

 

I'll admit that Sanders was not as extreme as I believed. I was comfortable for many years with the idea that equality of opportunity was the only real choice, but I am more open to the idea of equality of results than I used to be. I don't think this has to be a pie in the sky utopian concept like a Star Trek world, but I'll admit that I have no idea how it could be done without causing more harm than good. Good intentions and ultimate undoable solutions can and have been devastating. I have my eye on the whole robotics takeover. That is only going to get worse. The "Shovel Ready" jobs are already rare, and it is scary thinking about it getting worse. I can still picture Alan Greenspan saying everyone should go back to school and everything will be just fine. He said that with a straight face. It is a chilling memory. My original concerns are still there. Would citizens have any control over their live and protection from government overreach? Would people dream and have things to work towards? Everyone wonders how everyone can win and who pays for everything? That is a huge topic. Why pay people who can't support themselves to have kids who can't support themselves? This generational mess is kind of the worst possible outcome. I think everyone agrees that if you took every single cent from the 1 percenters, that it would only fund the budget for a few months. That is a scary and sobering thought. I also have to mention what people consider a victory. Today those below the poverty line enjoy a pretty high standard of living.

 

I was and remain a Bernie supporter. He was the best chance we had for solving real problems, but we have what we have.

That said, your question about socialism is timely. Socialism is enjoying a very large upswing in the U.S. and elsewhere. So what is it?

First, realize that a change in the type of economy never happens in one sweep with the whole plan for establishment of a viable and stable economy, and for running it, successfully and fully developed. Capitalism started with small guilds and manufactories of 4, 5, 6 people. There were early failures. There were lessons learned from the failures. And there were repeated attempts to figure it out over 100 years.

Socialism is and will be the same in many respects. (Be aware that Marx was a critic of capitalism. He didn't propose any formula or description of what socialism would be.) And early attempts envisioned the first step as being a need to seize the state machinery. From there the hope and plan was to govern in the interest of the workers and to receive feedback from them on needs. It didn't work. It only created "state capitalism" in which the relationship between the workers and the management was unchanged. It changed from being a relationship with a boss and business owner, to one with the state as the boss and business owner.

The last 25 years has been a period of summing up the experience, analyzing it, understanding what went wrong, and extracting from it new guidelines and plans. No longer will government control and domination be proposed. Freedom must be preserved. Democracy must be expanded. No government will be allowed to dictate what you drink, how many pets you have, or the number of children you have.

Here is the new plan as it is unfolding now: Worker Self-Directed Enterprises (WSDEs) otherwise known as worker cooperatives. And there are already many. Do you find co-ops scary? There are many small ones and one very large one that I know of. And states are happily passing laws to make the formation of worker co-ops simpler and more targeted - California, Colorado, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Texas, New York (and soon, Rhode Island).

Over time co-ops will increase in number. New laws like the Marcora Law in Italy will be passed in the U.S. Workers will have the freedom to choose to work for a traditional private business or a worker co-op. Choice is good, right? And people will vote with their commitment by taking jobs where they think they will get the job and participation they want.

No violent revolution; no fighting; no marking in the streets.... just take the job where you want to.