Is It Permissible to Punch/Assault Neo-Nazis Without Provocation?

For Topical Use Only · Jun 25, 2017

They should have their testicles removed and stitched to their foreheads so no-on is left in any doubt as to what they are.

VietVet · Jun 25, 2017

I do not condone violence, but to say "without provocation" about neo-Nazis is stupid.
A neo-Nazi IS provocation.
So is a confederate flag.
And a KKK hood.
Hate can provoke violence.

nra37922 · Jun 25, 2017

Eventually one of these days one of these Antifa, anti-Trump, leftist arsewipes are going to pick a fight with the wrong person and end up perforated...

Dropship · Jun 25, 2017

Thread title- Is It Permissible to Punch/Assault Neo-Nazis Without Provocation?
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There are a number of political parties and groups whose views we find distasteful, so we could ask is it permissible to punch them too?
For example if we see traitors doing this below, do patriots have the moral right to start swinging at them with baseball bats?..

Lil Mike · Jun 25, 2017

VietVet said: ↑

I do not condone violence, but to say "without provocation" about neo-Nazis is stupid.
A neo-Nazi IS provocation.
So is a confederate flag.
And a KKK hood.
Hate can provoke violence.
Click to expand...

So in other words, you do condone violence. Hodgkinson thought Congressman Scalise was KKK...and shot him. So if Nazi's, neo-Nazi's, confederate flags, or generalized "hate" you regard as legitimate provocation, you are in fact condoning violence, and pretty much without limit.

Admit it, you grinned a bit when you heard Scalise had been shot didn't you?

Xenamnes · Jun 25, 2017

VietVet said: ↑

I do not condone violence, but to say "without provocation" about neo-Nazis is stupid.
A neo-Nazi IS provocation.
So is a confederate flag.
And a KKK hood.
Hate can provoke violence.
Click to expand...

According to the united state supreme court, even hate speech, no matter how heinous it might be, is protected by the first amendment.

Thought Criminal · Jun 25, 2017

VietVet said: ↑

I do not condone violence, but to say "without provocation" about neo-Nazis is stupid.
A neo-Nazi IS provocation.
So is a confederate flag.
And a KKK hood.
Hate can provoke violence.
Click to expand...

So if I call someone who I disagree with a Nazi, It's OK for me to assault them? Who decides who the Nazis are?

If Antifa says someone is a Nazi, should I cheer the beating?

Andrew Jackson · Jun 25, 2017

Dropship said: ↑

Thread title- Is It Permissible to Punch/Assault Neo-Nazis Without Provocation?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are a number of political parties and groups whose views we find distasteful, so we could ask is it permissible to punch them too?
For example if we see traitors doing this below, do patriots have the moral right to start swinging at them with baseball bats?..

Click to expand...

So what if they "trample" the Flag?

The Flag is nothing more than a bunch of pieces of cloth sewn together.

So, let me get this straight:

Some people actually advocate violence for people walking on cloth?

Wow.

Silver Surfer · Jun 25, 2017

Calling a confederate flag a provocation is totally ignorant to say at least. It's part of the U.S history. It's no more provocative than the LGBT flag. Just another flag.
The U.S media created anti-Trump hysteria in the liberal parts of the country and will result in more and more innocent Americans losing their lives because of the media spewing hatred and vitriol 24/7. There are many unstable people on the liberal side of the divide.

Andrew Jackson · Jun 25, 2017

Silver Surfer said: ↑

Calling a confederate flag a provocation is totally ignorant to say at least. It's part of the U.S history. It's no more provocative than the LGBT flag. Just another flag.
The U.S media created anti-Trump hysteria in the liberal parts of the country and will result in more and more innocent Americans losing their lives because of the media spewing hatred and vitriol 24/7. There are many unstable people on the liberal side of the divide.
Click to expand...

Actually, you have it BACKWARDS.

The culture of Incivility (inspired by Trump) is responsible for most of the violence.

Thought Criminal · Jun 25, 2017

Andrew Jackson said: ↑

Actually, you have it BACKWARDS.

The culture of Incivility (inspired by Trump) is responsible for most of the violence.
Click to expand...

Shirley you cannot be serious.

Lil Mike · Jun 25, 2017

Thought Criminal said: ↑

Shirley you cannot be serious.
Click to expand...

...and don't call me Shirley.

yiostheoy · Jun 25, 2017

There are arguments that provocations warrant assaults.

The Negroes often assert this regarding their N word.

They can call each other the N word but you and I not being Negro cannot with provoking an assault.

The solution is complete segregation obviously.

Then they can call each other whatever they want.

Xenamnes · Jun 25, 2017

yiostheoy said: ↑

There are arguments that provocations warrant assaults.

The Negroes often assert this regarding their N word.

They can call each other the N word but you and I not being Negro cannot with provoking an assault.

The solution is complete segregation obviously.

Then they can call each other whatever they want.
Click to expand...

Poor impulse control, and a disregard for the rules of society.

Space_Time · Dec 10, 2017

Here's more:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...ae9e4b03a7be580ce6f?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000313

12/10/2017 02:57 pm ET Updated 32 minutes ago
The Nazi-Puncher’s Dilemma
Inside the antifa movement’s struggle to continue its long, colorful legacy of cracking white supremacist heads without alienating, well, just about everyone.
By Luke O’Brien

1.6k
29
WASHINGTON ― There is a growing desire in this country to punch Nazis in the face. At least, this is what I hear from people who punch Nazis in the face. Some gleefully send me videos of other people punching Nazis in the face, such as the one from September featuring a Nazi in Seattle who threw a banana at a man and, in return, ate a very professional right cross. The Nazi fell to the ground and lay there unconscious. When he came to, he removed his Nazi armband and shuffled off.

Anyone following the news knows who’s doing the bulk of this Nazi-punching: “antifa.” It’s an esoteric and often confounding term. Although short for “anti-fascist” — an expansive category that one would imagine includes millions of Americans — “antifa” has quickly come to connote a very specific stereotype: a black-clad, violent, leftist subversive.

Most Americans first learned about antifa in February, when what looked like a gang of ninjas set fires and broke windows to stop Milo Yiannopoulos, a race-baiting former Breitbart News editor, from speaking on the University of California, Berkeley campus, where he reportedly intended to out undocumented students. About a week after the deadly white supremacist riot in Charlottesville, Virginia, President Donald Trump seized on antifa as Exhibit A in his ongoing efforts to blame “both sides” for the violence. During a speech in Phoenix, Trump played up the word’s alien vibrations as if he were, to borrow a Trevor Noah joke, introducing a band at the Latin Grammys: “An-TEE-fa!”

Their notoriety may be new, but antifa have a long, complicated history of militant community activism. This history has involved a lot of Nazi-punching, but it’s also about much more than that. In the course of my reporting on the alt-right over the past year, I’ve talked to several older anti-fascists who have been doing the “work” for decades. They told me about pitched battles in the street with Nazis from another era, about raiding Klan rallies under cover of darkness, about cops in cahoots with white supremacists, and about Nazis torching the homes of activists and killing antifa in the desert. I heard about duffel bags filled with barbells and knives and a legendary anti-fascist who was attacked by a brass-knuckle-wielding Nazi and responded by breaking the fascist’s teeth with a Maglite flashlight. These exploits sounded fantastical, but when I looked into them, they were true.

The antifa vets were more strategic than I anticipated and obsessively knowledgeable about politics. They all had extreme personalities, although time had precipitated out a little of their tannin. Some had children and normal lives. The Maglite legend, I’d heard, was now a kids’ soccer coach. Still, they were tight-lipped about their activities, some of which were illegal, and were often misunderstood.

Anti-facism is a loose-knit, decentralized movement containing numerous organizations and ideologies that even insiders struggle to explain. For starters, not all people who identify as anti-fascists describe themselves as antifa. Most antifa are anarchists, but there are also socialists and communists, who divide further into Maoists, Marxists, Trotskyists and Stalinist “tankies.”

What unites them is a belief that dangerous elements of the far right must be driven from the public square, even if by force. And for two decades, beginning in the mid-1980s, that’s what antifa attempted to do, almost entirely out of the public eye. They put neo-Nazis and other white supremacists on their heels in cities and suburbs around the country, forcing many of them underground or into retreat. (Other contributing factors: litigation by civil rights organizations, the demise of key white supremacist leaders and law enforcement roundups.)

Over the past year, as fascists and racists have reemerged, emboldened by the rise of Trump, many old-school antifa have laced up their boots again. But now they find themselves facing a new enemy. The current crop of neo-Nazis and white nationalists prefers tattersall to tattoos and come off more like Young Republicans than Hammerskins. They are proficient in social media and online messaging, which presents a challenge for antifa used to fighting in the shadows.

“When you have Richard Spencer getting punched in the face, millions of people see it,” said Oren Segal, the director of the Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism. Millions of people might also feel a pang of sympathy for Spencer. Others might use the video to demonize the left or justify a crackdown on public protest. In an age of insta-propaganda, it’s hard to know: Is punching Nazis actually helping the Nazis?

BRIAN BLANCO VIA GETTY IMAGES
A man in a swastika shirt is punched outside a Richard Spencer speech at the University of Florida on Oct. 19.
If New Orleans gave us jazz, Minneapolis gave us antifa. Gangs of skinheads scrapping in cold Midwestern alleys — that’s how organized anti-fascism in America was born, in the counter-culture punk scene of the 1980s. The skinheads listened to ska and punk and wore steel-toed Doc Martens and Fred Perry shirts. The original skinhead movement was multiracial and working class, and it drew heavily from Jamaican “rude boy” culture. But in the 1980s, white power groups invaded the scene, giving rise to thousands of “boneheads” — neo-Nazi skinheads.

In Minneapolis, one bonehead set called the White Knights started beating up minority kids and menacing leftists in the punk rock crowd. It was stomp or get stomped, and a multiracial crew of “traditional” skins called the Baldies decided to fight back. The Baldies’ turf was the Uptown neighborhood. If the Baldies caught Nazis in Uptown, they’d tell them to leave. If the Nazis didn’t leave, the Baldies put a hurt on them. The White Knights cleared out of Uptown. Before long, they cleared out of Minneapolis.

UNKNOWN
The original Baldies in Minneapolis in the 1980s.
In 1987, the Baldies joined with other leftist and anarchist activists to form Anti-Racist Action, which would become the mother organization for anti-fascism in America. The ARA focused not only on neighborhood Nazis but also on systemic racism. “We go where they go” was the ARA’s first guiding principle, and the organization’s tactics evolved beyond fisticuffs. ARA members painted over racist graffiti and disrupted the sales of white power music. They put out political literature, held demonstrations and did door knocks, volunteered in schools to educate kids about racism, protested wars and did environmental activism and labor organizing. One of the ARA’s priorities was defending reproductive rights. Members regularly stood guard outside abortion clinics, which the far right menaced with Nazi muscle.

The ARA also pioneered a tactic known today as doxing — exposing fascists and racists in order to shame them in their communities. Back then, it was a lot more labor-intensive. “When you see someone passing out white supremacist flyers or not getting prosecuted for hate crimes, you dig deeper and try to find out who the person is,” explains an anti-fascist in western Pennsylvania with two decades of experience who goes by Lady. “We would make a list of their actions against our friends, neighbors and the community. We’d write it into a little story and put it on a flyer with a picture of them we’d usually have to snap ourselves. Then we’d walk around their community and put the flyer on light poles and cars. We’d usually call it something like, ‘Meet your neighborhood racist.’”

To ARA members, there was no point expecting help from the cops, many of whom antifa knew were themselves racist. And they dismissed liberals as the same kind of pearl-clutching appeasers who’d allowed Hitler and Mussolini to seize power in the 1930s. Antifa would go it alone. By 1998, ARA reportedly had more than 100 chapters and 2,000 members across North America, as well as several newspapers and a hotline to receive tips about white supremacists. Its policy on fascists was simple: Don’t allow white supremacists any platform to normalize a violent ideology. As Gerry Bello, a longtime member of Columbus ARA in Ohio, put it: “Hitler himself said the only way you could have beaten us if you’d smashed us off the street from the very first day and with the utmost brutality.”

These are fights involving weapons. Sometimes one of them will catch a right proper boot party. There’s quite a few times where if we wanted to put them in the morgue they would be in the morgue.
Antifa weren’t exaggerating the threat of violence. Many remember the night in 1998 when two women lured Dan Shersty and Lin “Spit” Newman, two ARA members, into the desert near Las Vegas. Instead of a party, the young antifa found a group of neo-Nazis. According to media accounts, Shersty was barely out of his car when a gun blast opened up his chest. The fascists dragged Newman deeper into the desert and shot him to pieces. Only one of the neo-Nazis, John “Polar Bear” Butler, was convicted of the murders. Another person later took a plea deal.

The violence, however, cut both ways. Although antifa tended to show more restraint on the battlefield, they still put plenty of Nazis in the hospital. “**** happens,” Bello explains. “These are fights involving weapons. Sometimes one of them will catch a right proper boot party. There’s quite a few times where if we wanted to put them in the morgue they would be in the morgue.”

Perhaps the first time that antifa really entered public view was during the protests against globalization at the 1999 World Trade Organization meeting in Seattle, when a small contingent of masked anarchists in black famously smashed up police cars and the windows of corporate offices in acts of “symbolic violence.” (Many antifa view capitalism as an engine of systemic racism.) The “Battle of Seattle” was essentially the American debut of the “black bloc” tactic, which was first used in Germany. The idea was that if the entire bloc dressed in black and wore masks, a few activists could vandalize property and then blend anonymously back into the ensemble, making it almost impossible for police to figure out whom to arrest. From that point, black bloc became the de facto uniform for antifa when they deployed in large groups.
Click to expand...

Thought Criminal · Dec 10, 2017

Montegriffo said: ↑

No I don't think that unprovoked violence is ever warranted.
I would restrict certain freedoms of speech though. Holocaust denial and incitement to racial hatred for a start.
Click to expand...

Then where to stop?

Lesh · Dec 10, 2017

Space_Time said: ↑

Here's more:
Click to expand...

I just happened on that very article a few hours ago and was surprised how much I found myself respecting these guys.

With the notable exception of the property damage...I really like what they are doing.

The world has had enough of Nazis and these guys seem to keep them under control

Put that swastika armband on and you deserve a punch in the mouth

Antiduopolist · Dec 10, 2017

Thought crime is hate crime is real crime is face punch.

Lil Mike · Dec 11, 2017

Lesh said: ↑

I just happened on that very article a few hours ago and was surprised how much I found myself respecting these guys.

With the notable exception of the property damage...I really like what they are doing.

The world has had enough of Nazis and these guys seem to keep them under control

Put that swastika armband on and you deserve a punch in the mouth
Click to expand...

So you are actually supportive of black clad gangs committing property damage and assault for political purposes?

Gee I wonder which other group liked to do that.

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