Satellite images reveal vast russian losses in Ukraine.

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by zoom_copter66, Jun 25, 2017.

  1. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I don't think that as long as Russian planes fly over Assad's and Iran's armies the Americans can afford open war against them. My guess is that we'll see the following peace settlement once ISIS and al-Nusra are gone: An autonomous Kurdish region, an election under UN auspices. The Americans will be able to push on two issues: First, how big is the Kurdish region? Second, how much power will the President of Syria have under the negotiated Constitution, and how long will elections be delayed?

    But this all hinges on the Turks. There are indications of a more strident Turkish involvement in the conflict, which at this point would be a disaster for the Americans.

    Things have accelerated. The Turks, Iranians, and Americans have all undergone a flurry of activity. The Americans need to keep the Turks and Kurds from shooting each other, Iran needs to get as much ISIS territory as it can, and the Turks need to figure out just how important the American alliance is to them.
     
  2. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and here is the Minsk agreement from 2015 currently being violated by Russia

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/12/ukraine-crisis-minsk-ceasefire-agreement-details

     
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  3. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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  4. 22catch

    22catch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Turks were moving heavy stuff into the North today. They hate the Kurds with a blind purple passion. Not going to be cheap
     
  5. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't see it happening either, but Russia is also supporting the rebels in eastern Ukraine, in doing so destabilising Ukraine. It's true there are many in eastern Ukraine that wants to be part of Russia, however you do not just move a country's boundaries because you feel like it. You pack your bags and move to the other country you want to live in, because when you try to shift boundaries too many people die. Russia needs to leave eastern Ukraine and wear the sanctions for Crimea if they want to keep it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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  6. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    The Americans simply don't have the forces in the region to deal with a Turkish invasion of Rojava, and I'm not sure how the Syrians, Iranians, and Russians would respond to it.

    I really hope that doesn't happen, it would probably be a complete bloodbath.
     
  7. 22catch

    22catch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Time to resort to what we do best. diplomacy.. Coughs I mean bribery.
     
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  8. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    lol well our best bet would be to secure European support for sanctions on Turkey, especially from Germany.
     
  9. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Rebels that fight for their "own" land? Where's proof that Muscovites are not in Ukraine? Don't post those 3 amigos, maybe they're rinat akmetov former bodyguards, or is it Victor yanukovich?
     
  10. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Putin's golden moment was in May/June 2014, where he could've went all in , in places like Mariupol, Odessa, kharkiv, Nikolayev, etc, they were ripe for takeover by the little"green men", and nothing would've stopped him, but he didn't, and Ukraine's armed forces had a chance to do some "reforming", do now any further incursions by Putin &co, will result in more bloodshed, casualties, resources, etc. Imho.
     
  11. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Yep. I think the Russians believed that their supporters through the country would spontaneously rally to them.

    Very much the opposite happened.
     
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  12. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Yah, and none of those mentioned places are interested in some "novorussia" concept, conceived by strelkov/Girkin and co.
     
  13. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    There were plenty of Ukrainians interested in closer ties to Russia pre-invasion. At this point Russians are not likely to enjoy good relations with Ukraine for decades. Oops.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
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  14. wombat

    wombat Well-Known Member

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    Roos can box. You'll be outnumbered...;)
     
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  15. D0nRumataEst0rsky

    D0nRumataEst0rsky Banned

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    Now in Ukraine there is a dictatorship. If someone opposes the government, then the special serveses arrest and torture. Therefore, most pro-Russian people are silent. They wait when Russia gets strong enough to release them.
     
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  16. Ninian

    Ninian Banned

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  17. Ninian

    Ninian Banned

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    What puzzled me this while time - and quite sincerely puzzled me, because even if we'll consider politicians of all countries being total douсhes, war in Ukraine STILL is a one big loss in money and people - why did not it all STARTED with a UN-organised and controlled referendums, that at very worst at least could've been fabricated to give pro-ukrainian results. Why just.. Letting this bloodbath to begin..?
     
  18. 22catch

    22catch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh get real Nin. We could park a tank in your living room and you'd say its not proof.

    It's common knowledge Russia supplies support to the Rebels with.. Everything , uve been given enough proof. Actually your smart and already know so this insistence to tow the official Russian story is just propaganda.

    No one cares if Russia invades Ukraine in the US. Europe won't act if we don't so Russia should just invade it already. Or wait until we give them billions in weapons and support and never take it. That money is in our new proposed budget so clocks ticking.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
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  19. Ninian

    Ninian Banned

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    I personally, from my experience, tend to not trust "common knowledge". That's first.

    When people MAKE STATEMENT - they present proofs, or point at that being their personal assumtion. That's second.

    Besides, if this is such a common knowledge, so well established, so well studied - it should not be a "Oh get real" case. Proofs should be easy to find, solid and numerous. Otherwise..

    I do not say it is not possible. I that this is serious topic, discussion of which should not be based on rumors and "common knowledge". It needs evidences, that can be analised - like I analised the article by BBC and pointed, with links, at equipment mentioned there being not exclusively russian.

    Again - it is possible. It is plausible. But I am not agreeing with this just because some people abroad think it is so - judgements must be based on facts, not assumptions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  20. sharik

    sharik Banned

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    there ain't no such thing as common knowledge.
     
  21. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    You know that the US Congress still gave in September last year green light for US weapon deliveries to Ukraine?

    Anyway, that Russia supports the Donbass rebels same way is well-known fact too and I have no problem with it, as I never had any personal problem with it that Crimea was conquered by Russia, because in my eyes it was always Russian territory since conquered 200 years or so ago!
     
  22. 22catch

    22catch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You've been given page after page of sources and you just say it's no good. Our opinion is Russia is THERE and that's that. I don't respect intentional propaganda
     
  23. 22catch

    22catch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes I know that and we are giving them alot more
     
  24. Ninian

    Ninian Banned

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    I say these sources are not good because I analise them. It is not my fault, that youtube interwies of "prisoners of war" are full of mismatching details, dogtags of incorrect form, people of same regiment wearing different camo, some of which is not used by RF military, et cetera. Not my fault that articles, presented so far, have no direct evidences of modern equipment produced in Russian Federation being in posession of rebels.

    I do not say that your opinion is 100% wrong, it is possible our government highly involed, it is plausible. But I do not agree with sources that I find being wrong after I check the facts and details.

    I am open to discussion, open to argumentation - but I can not agree with false information that I personally can prove being false.

    Consider that being my part of patriotism - not agreeing with something just because it is plausible. I, when make argument, do not expect people to automatically agree with it, I add sources and proofs when I can, and when I know that I can not guarantee myself being right - I say that I "assume" and "suppose" this or that.

    I assume our government might be supplying rebels, but by default I disagree with it, because my government should not be doing that, according to international agreements that my very government have signed. So I cannot agree with accusations, that are not proven.


    And especially when after one, as train go others. Do not forget, topic started from OP about "mass unmarked graves of conscripts". This is, basically, my civil duty to repell such delusions when they presented to people, because they twist already murky perception of situation. Such broken perception turns, if not countered, in exactly the "common knowledge" you mentioned - when people believe in something because other people around believe in same thing, without giving it a grain of doubt and factual check. Things that are vital in the current century, because of how much information goes through Internet and media, and how much fabricated material can be thrown in. This is merely a sober, critical thinking.
     
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  25. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Shameful, horrible, dishonorable.... and that's not the end of it:

     
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