How was Jesus' sacrifice legit if he knew he would rise again ?

Jesus knew he was God incarnate, he also knew he would be crucified, and he also knew there was life after death and that he would rise again.

Given all this, how was his sacrifice really so ? If you're the Creator of the Universe and you put yourself into your creation with a getaway plan predetermined, your efforts are not really sacrificial since you not only knew of the outcome, but planned it.

It's like jumping from a high building unto a net even though you put the net there yourself.

How is that brave or truly sacrificial ?

 

Actually........ Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus' statements about himself vs G-d are a little different than his fans teach.......

John 5:30

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

John 14:10

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Fatherin me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."


Fasting for forty days will likely induce a near death experience or at least an out of the body experience. NDErs often feel so close to G-d afterward that they usually need years to sort through what they saw during their spiritual experience.

Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus being born of a literal virgin, rather than of a young unmarried woman...... is an idea that the Apostle Paul knew nothing about...... so the Book of Luke was probably put together when the "young unmarried woman" truth was no longer politically correct among Messianic Gentiles........

www.ThomasTwin.com/
gives another explanation that makes much more sense on that note and....... if Rabbi Yeshua's Jesus disciples since the third century knew him so well..... then why did he pray:


Matthew 26:39

And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cuppass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

 

If you would be willing to do some research on some shocking material about the events surrounding the death of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus you would enjoy pages 137 - 200 in this book:


https://books.google.ca/books?id=kbiGjKJl4D4C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

(I think that you can read the first 42 pages here)..... but the really astonishing information is after page 137............)

 

yes, as during his 3 days of death he suffered for all the sins of mankind, current and future.

 

Yes.......
those three days between his death and his resurrection might have been pretty rough........

1Peter 3:18

¶
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

To what degree did Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus go through some aspects of a negative near death experience before his resurrection?????

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/christian-andreason.html#a09

 

expand

 

i cant

the belief is that during his 3 days of death, he suffered for all the sins of mankind, current and future.

that a lot of burning in Hell

 

I always had a hard time seeing it as a true scarifice. It looks as if it was all done to save humanity from a danger (the danger being sin) God simply allowed to exist in the first place.

 

Oh don't worry - 'they'll' think up some off-the-wall reason to justify it!

 

What annoyed me were two statements by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus.

1. Many called / few chosen.
2. A broad way leading to destruction and many there be who go in thereat and...... a narrow way leading to life and few finding it.......
oh yes.... and his often references to some sort of higher dimensional hell or purgatory or whatever it was?????

I read one visionary dream from 1995 in which the pastor reports being able to hold a red stone...... and he was able to view every moment of the life of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus right up until he died...... .The man reports that he could not hold on to the stone though after The Anciet of Days the Father left Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus.

If Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus had a near death experience or out of the body experience during those forty days of fasting.... then he would probably have known that his entire life..... every moment.... .would be viewable by his students / disciples once they passed on.

Luk 12:7

But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows."

I will try to find that quotation as soon as I can......

 

It's definitely not a very sound notion, a "sacrifice" that ends in the victim coming back to life and ascending to glory and all that. That, indeed, is not a sacrifice in the end.

This myth only makes sense when viewed in a symbolic manner. I am convinced that Christ represents the sun in the sky in an allegorical way and that his three-day death and subsequent resurrection reflect the sun's apparent motion in the sky at Winter Solstice, and that the entire gospel narrative is constructed around this seasonal and astrological motif. It certainly has plenty of cognates in other, more ancient religious traditions, and Christ is far from unique in this respect.

The sun remains at its low point during that solstice for about 3 days before it begins to ascend higher (from the south) again, eventually leading to spring and summer. That low point is both Christ's birth and his death & resurrection in the narrative. Some versions of the story omit Christ's birth - it's only featured in two of the gospels, where the overall structure remains but the details differ considerably, but those details (such as where, exactly, Mary & Josef were) were not as important to the narrative as the adherence to the solar-astrological motif, anyway. The same applies throughout the synoptic gospels, where the overall structure is similar and the same motifs apply, but again unimportant details differ from one version to another.

The 12 houses of the Zodiac are featured in various ways throughout; Judas, for instance, appears to represent the scorpion, which betrays Jesus with its poisonous kiss. The sun passes through Scorpio in the fall, when it begins to lose its "power" and be dragged down to its coming death in the dead of winter. Early in the gospels, Jesus meets the waterbearer, characterized as John the Baptist, but really representing Aquarius; the sun passes through Aquarius in late winter to early spring, when its "ministry" is just getting started and the weather begins to warm and life begins to spring up. It all ties together very nicely, the gospel narrative and the astrological picture of the seasons. Ancient peoples had rich mythologies built around astrology. It was interwoven into their religions and cultural practices, some of which we retain these traditions to this day, e.g. in Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter.

 

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK...... I was not quite expecting this from you Durandal!

I also have to agree with you that there is indeed an accurate and kosher manner in which to understand the Zodiac!

Wow!

Christian Andreason gets into what he was shown about astrology in chapter 5 of his NDE account:


http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

 

Indeed, this is the problem with the idea that Jesus is God - a claim He never made Himself.

 

And the biblical support for this claim (burning in hell for 3 days) is ?

 

To be clear, I place no store by the claims of astrologers. I'm just pointing out that there is a parallel between the mythology of Christianity and aspects of astrology, specifically where Zodiacal motifs are concerned. It's bunk built upoon more bunk, ultimately, but I'm looking at what Christianity has evolved from.

 

Dude, you missed the point.

 

It's easy enough, just read the books. The stuff about fulfilling the prophecies is easy to find, also providing proof to a select group of people in the flesh, experiencing human suffering and doubt. His ministry pretty much follows the pattern of theTorah.

 

That's a point - I wonder who God's dad was? Zeus mebbe? Blimey, thinking about that is hurting my brain!

 

RE: How was Jesus' sacrifice legit if he knew he would rise again ?
※→ Channe, et al,

This has to do with one of the central themes that run through Christianity; the "Trinity" (The Father - Son - Holy Ghost). This is very much like the "Set of the Supreme Being" containing three distinct infinite elements which compose the essence of the Supreme Being. [Analogous to the "Set of Whole Numbers" (which in itself is infinite) ⇒ having within it the Sub-Sets of "Even Numbers,""Odd Numbers" and "Prime Numbers;" each Sub-set being an infinite series in its own.]

(COMMENT)

Since humanity does not actually know what the "Essence of a Supreme Being" is, humanity (within Christianity) cannot define the characteristics and attributes, so it creates a theoretical construct.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

Actually the success of Judeo-Christian theology is because of it being far closer to humanity than the pagan superstitions, assorted Greek gods, Egyptian spirits, etc., etc, most of whom were more like animals, or selfish spoiled children or cartoons who could care less about human problems and issues. This accounts for Christianity's widespread success and why people flocked to it in droves, and still do.

 

This assumes, first, that Jesus is indeed part of God. Remember that Christians are divided about whether Jesus and the Holy Spirit are actually aspects of God or not. Secondly, regardless of whether you assume the Trinity premise or not, is the question of whether or not Jesus knew what the whole plan was. Even if he was an aspect of God, it was obvious that he was cut off from the main being and did not have access to all knowledge of God. Yes, he said something about the 3rd day and returning, but there are so many ways that can play out. It would be a legitimate concern that he might be sacrificing his eternal existence that others might have it. Finally, one of the theorized reasons that the being know as Jesus, God aspect or not, was among the humans for 30+ years, is so that the being would experience what it was like to be human. So that means fear and doubt were there, including the fear that he would die in vain, and that he was wrong about what he believe and supposedly knew. Again, he was cut off from the main, if actually part of God, so he couldn't verify the plan.

 

Dad in what sense? Genetically? God could have easily made a clone of Mary, tweeting a Y into an X. Remember this is a miracle after al. As to the person, for those not believing in the Trinity as aspects of a single being, Jesus is often thought to be the first Spirit God ever created, his first born son.

 

This assumes Hell exists, another disagreement among Christians. According to some beliefs, Jesus descended into Sheol (sp?) to preach to those souls who had expired before him but were not allowed into heaven because of Original Sin. That is where he spent the....well closer to day and a half, two days really.

 

Aha yes........... a very good theory indeed...... especially if author Levi Dowling indeed did get good at out of body experiences and did consult the Akashic Records / the DVD library of all space and time.... to see other events from the life of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus than the disciples decided to record for us.

That book is called The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ...... and I thought it was quite brilliantly done really.