Apparently, many British citizens didn't realize what not being in the EU actually meant...

I was in England recent with my girlfriend to visit her family. Her family was very much against "Brexit" since they all travel to mainland Europe several times a year for both business and pleasure. Apparently, they are a minority among those in the UK who actually understood what leaving the EU means. They understand that the only reason they get to travel to Europe without paying all the usual fees, and having to have a visa was because they were members of the EU. They told me that sever Brexit supporters, including many of the friends, had no idea that leaving the EU meant losing those rights. Only citizens of EU member nations get exemptions from customs fees and visa requirements. Apparently, what Brexit supporters actually wanted was for the UK to get the right to keep out citizens other other countries but at the same time to still retain their travel and work rights in other Europe. They wanted all the benefits of being members of the EU, but not have any of the obligations that come with it.

 

You need a comparison of benefits vs disadvantages to be able to come to an informed opinion.

 

According to my girlfriend's father, most people who voted to leave that he knows of 9 out of 10 times, they thought the vote was to end the UK's obligation to allow European workers to come to the UK for work. They didn't even realize that they were lose their travel benefits. The yes campaign did a really good job of lying to voters and telling them they would still get all the same travel rights, and that they would be able to work in mainland Europe without needing a visa to do so.

 

Even less understood the implications for Northern Ireland and the peace agreement.

 

The people I know in the U.K. voted for Brexit mainly because the country had to accept anyone from any EU country and there were many coming, changing the way of life for long time citizens, sucking up National Health funds, and sending their wages home so another lot could do the same. Anyone who travels to London can notice a marked change even as a tourist.
Now whether they are right or wrong in taking that stance, it is just what I heard from many long time U.K citizens.
From a financial and trade position, it would appear short sighted just as isolation in trade in the U.S. long term will prove to be the same.

 

The brits have a right to leave or stay in the EU as they choose

I don't care one way or the other

 

Just like the crowd that fell for the stupid "America first" slogan. They want the benefits of free trade and international coalitions, but not the obligations. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. International relations are a two-way street. Trump can't just waltz in there and tell everyone else how it is done to maximize the benefit to the US. Just like the Brexiters, the Trump voters will get their wake-up call -- eventually.

 

Then why comment?

 

Why not?

Euro's want to parade their troubles before us here and I'm just not interested

 

This isn't about Brits wanting to stay or leave the EU. The issue is that want to still have all the benefits of membership, but not have any of the legal obligations that come with membership, just like the Trump supporters, with the America first BS. They want all the benefits of a global economy with none of the obligations.

 

So you're suggesting they let the EU dictate to them what they can do in their own country because otherwise they have to get a VISA?

That's not much of an argument.

 

Would you not advise the brits that if they want the benefits they have to remain in the EU?

It is about the question of membership

 

They want to still be allowed to travel freely to Europe without visas and paying customs fees. and still be allowed to work in EU counties without work visas. They want still be allowed to export their goods to Europe without taxation, and have all the other benefits of EU membership, but be allowed to not let citizens of EU countries do the same. This is the issue. They didn't want to LEAVE the EU. They just wanted an exemption to all the legal obligations that EU membership came with. They want the benefits of free trade and open boarders without the drawbacks.

 

Are you telling us that having someone in Brussels govern your whole life is worth it because one saves on travel fees??????

 

Not just travel fees. They want to be allowed to do all the things in Europe that they claim to being wanting to stop in the UK. They want to be exempt from having work visas if they work on the mainland, and exempt from paying tariffs on goods they export to the mainland, and all the other things that benefited THEM as members of the EU, but be exempted from allowing those same benefits got other countries. They are hypocrites.

 

But they cant have it both ways

So they have to **** or get off the pot

 

During the Brexit campaign, I heard a BBC interviewee say something like "Traditionally. right-wing politicians have made an art of misleading the U.K. without outright lying. But Brexit has shown that they're not even trying anymore -- they just straight-up lie without hesitation." Which also sounds a lot like our situation here in the U.S. -- Trump regularly lies through his teeth, and doesn't think anything of it.

Or is it that voters no longer think anything of outright lies, after years of being fed half-truths, misdirections, lies of ommission, gross generalizations, and even straight-up lies by the conservative noise machine?

 

Too bad they can't wake up without turning the U.S. into a banana republic right before our very eyes.

 

I've been to London twice this year since the Brexit vote. Once on business and once with the family. I was hearing similar comments while there.

I'm not sure they truly understood what they were voting on, or truly understand what it meant. Sometimes people vote out of anger, or for symbolicism, or whatever, without realizing the ramifications of their vote.

I've seen similar things happen in this country where people vote and don't understand what they're voting for. But hey, they're sending a message yeeha! And to them, that's all that matters.

 

No offense intended to the Brits out there, but did they really believe the above?

I've traveled in Europe twice. The first before the EU was strong, and you still had to go through border crossings and get new currency at every new country, and the second after the EU was strong, and there were open borders and the Euro. The second experience was much better and hassle free. Using the same money in Ireland, Germany and Austria was convenient.

 

Except that's not what happened. It was a situation where they decided to leave cause they couldn't get what they really wanted. The yes campaign knowingly and purposely misled voters into thinking that the vote was actually going to give the UK exemptions to several legal requirements, but that they would still have all the same rights and privileges. Many voters, looking back, said that they would have voted to stay if they had no that the promises made by the Yes campaign leaders were lies. They would have supported reforming EU treaties instead of outright leaving the EU.

 

If you say so

I really don't care what the brits decide to do or why

Its not my problem

 

The UK can work out travel agreements with the EU or individual nations just as the US has done. We're not part of the EU, but Americans can visit France, Germany, and lots of other countries for business or pleasure provided the stay will not exceed 90 days.

Likewise, the UK can easily work out trade agreements to deal with customs much like the EU was.

And permanent residency and work visas entail an application process that is little more than a formality.

 

You sound more sensible than the hysterical people who think the world is coming to an end

 

The problem with that is that the EU countries aren't going to want to do that.