APNewsBreak: Border wall models thwart US commandos in tests

A Wall does work. No question. My question is what is the best, most efficient and fiscally responsible way to solve the problem of illegal immigration? As you might have noticed not a single pro-wall proponent can answer that question. We know the approximate (not exact) cost of the Wall, but not the effectiveness. We know that almost half of illegals cross our border legally so there's about 40% right there that the Wall will not stop. We know that the Wall will not stop any illegals who are already here. We know that the Wall will not stop boats nor ladder trucks and rope ladders. We know that the Wall will hinder immigrants crossing the border, but not the cost per person stopped. We know that Legislators are focused on a single line of defense, but not on arresting and imprisoning those who entice illegals to come to the US such as employers and renters much less laws that give illegals medical, welfare and schooling benefits.

Republicans used to be fiscally responsible. Republicans used to be able to present a factual and logical argument on why something needed to be done. The facts and figures would be there for all to see. Nowadays, Republicans are like Democrats. They want to "pass the bill so we can see what's in it". Like Democrats, they use emotional arguments and insult anyone who attacks them.

 

Across the entire Atlantic and Pacific? Interesting.

 

Agreed. My problem with that "the Wall" is that we don't even know the true cost of it much less it's projected effectiveness. We also do not see any plans to resolve the other problems associated with illegal immigration.

 

I agree with this statement and if our President did as well much of this would go away.

 

Nobody has yet invented a low maintenance contraption that can remove bulk cargo from a ship's hold with efficiency also. Contraptions can only balance maintenance and efficiency on a hoped for better teeter-totter. But they keep on trying with unpredictable results and unknown numbers because every contraption so far is better than manual labor.

 

How does an employer check a person's "personal histories"? Since many states have Voter ID, why not use the same ID to verify employability and legal residency? Wouldn't that be much cheaper than spending BILLIONS on a Wall plus also solve the problem of those who are already here and the ~40% who come here legally but stay illegally?

 

Trump wants 800 miles of wall along our 2000 mile border with Mexico. The rest would be areas where a virtual wall could do the job or areas of natural barriers

 

Sorry, but I have no idea how that applies to my post.

 

Ahhh, good to see he's backpedaling on his initial claims, but that's at least a start. Has he given up the idea that Mexico will pay for it too?

 

That could work in a country without the monstrous idea of sanctuary that also held to the rule of law, with the laws designed for the citizenry and legal immigrants only.

 

You claim to be military. Do we ever know the true cost of a war or if we will even win it? No, we go to war because we have to and we will build the wall because we have to. We know the cost of doing neither is unacceptable so we take the appropriate course of action and fight to win. If we do it right we win the war and the wall works.

 

You seem to be saying just have an open border then get people out after they are in.

 

Wow. First we compare Trump's Wall to the Berlin Wall then we want Death Squads roaming America. Let's hope most Americans remember more of the ideals of our Founders and less of some Third World shithole dictatorship.

 

No doubt that is all you can see in my posts.

Again, you're world is very simple and reduced to black and white while mine is in full living color. The answer is steps 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and many more.

When you can approach me like an adult and present a factual argument on both the cost effectiveness of this multi-billion dollar adventure and what percentage of illegal immigration it will stop, then we can have a reasonable discussion.

 

How do we know exactly how well it will work until we try? It seems obvious to anyone rational adult that a forty foot wall designed to be extremely difficult to get over will stop a lot more people than no wall at all where one foot steps over an imaginary line is the only requirement.

 

Yes, we know the true cost of wars. In fact, we almost lost WWII because we were close to bankruptcy. Nevertheless, it was right that we fought it. Vietnam is dicier and Iraq 2003 was a complete FUBAR and waste of American blood and treasure.

You are putting the entire idea of solving the illegal immigration problem on the simple idea of a wall when the reality is that the solution will be a defense in depth. The fact you and several other people see it this way does not negate the fact that most Americans disagree with your oversimplified and highly expensive solution.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/344631-rasmussen-poll-most-dont-want-border-wall
A majority of likely voters in a new poll doesn't think the U.S. should build a wall along the country's southern border.

The conservative-leaning Rasmussen Reports poll finds that 37 percent of likely voters said the U.S. should construct a border wall in an effort to curb illegal immigration.

But 56 percent of respondents disagree.


http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/351752-poll-support-drops-for-deportation-border-wall
Support for President Trump's signature plan to build a wall along the Mexican border has dropped over the past two years, as has support for his policy of increased deportations of undocumented immigrants.

A Monmouth University poll released Thursday found 35 percent of Americans support Trump's plan to build a wall, down from 48 percent in September 2015.

 

ROFLMAO

“We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it” ​

-- Nancy Pelosi​

At the end of Orwell's famous novel "Animal Farm" it reads:
"An uproar of voices was coming from the farmhouse. They rushed back and looked through the window again. Yes, a violent quarrel was in progress. There were shoutings, bangings on the table, sharp suspicious glances, furious denials. The source of the trouble appeared to be that Napoleon and Mr. Pilkington had each played an ace of spades simultaneously.

Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

I feel the same way about today's Democrats and Republican.

 

You never know if you'll win a war but you fight it because the alternative is worse. We don't know how well the wall will work but we build it because the alternative is worse.

 

Faulty comparison. We know the wall will stop far more than no wall but we have no way of knowing exact percentages until the numbers come in.

 

You do realize that there are plenty of examples of walls already built out there, including our border, that show that effectiveness clearly, right?

 

You consider hundreds or thousands of people per day, and those are just the ones who are caught, is a small part?

I agree though that e-verify would be more successful at stopping those coming to work jobs, but would do nothing to stop the criminals and drug dealers. That requires a physical barrier.

 

It's certainly better than the status quo.

Arguing that "that won't be effective" when we already have effective barriers on the border, such as San Diego, is ludicrous.

Doing what we're doing now is the reason we have at least 11 million illegal aliens in the country now.

 

I never even suggested that we should shoot people trying climb over this proposed wall like they did in East Germany.
To act as though I had is a really crazy paranoid fantasy of yours ...not mine. Get a grip on your imagination.

As I've said before in the primaries when Trump first proposed this wall I thought, as someone who didn't vote for Trump, the idea was over kill and a much better solution would be to increase border patrols, use drones more and more electronic surveillance. And I still do.

However having said that, every time some partisan hack tries to tell me that a wall will not cut down appreciably on illegal border crossings
it insults my intelligence and flies in the face of reality.

A security wall has worked everywhere it's ever been tried including in ancient China, in Roman occupied England and in Athens.http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/7-famous-border-walls

It's a barrier. Barriers are what stop human access. Duh! Leftists love to claim how brilliant they are and how dumb conservatives are yet they make hare brained idiotic claims all the time. This is one of them. There may be better ways to secure the border but this Trump proposal will undoubtedly drastically reduce the number of people bringing drugs and illegal immigrants over the Southern border.
Undoubtedly!

 

Please explain why the San Diego border wall has been so successful.

Explain why Europe is throwing up thousands of miles of barriers to stop migrant flows.

Explain how the Israeli wall is a waste of time and resources.

Anyone who suggests the price of the wall is too expensive in the face of what illegal immigration costs us in crime, death and money clearly is poor at math.

 

Can you tell me how many bank robberies are stopped by putting money into heavily fortified vaults with armed guards around?
The answer to that question cannot be given because you cannot know who has been stopped from even trying to rob a bank.
You can only know that to remove those security procedures would be inviting would be robbers and robberies.

So how can the effectiveness of a border wall be questioned when it's worked very well everywhere it's been tried?