APNewsBreak: Border wall models thwart US commandos in tests

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by MolonLabe2009, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're the one who mentioned the Berlin Wall as proof of wall effectiveness. I pointed out that effectiveness was primarily due to shooting anyone who crossed it. Are you denying this fact?
     
  2. Your Best Friend

    Your Best Friend Well-Known Member

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    Yes. And please learn what a "fact" is. The effectiveness of the wall was that it was an imposing physical barrier that made even an attempt at crossing over it very difficult indeed.
    Of course the threat of armed guards made that attempt even more unlikely. But like the armed guards in prisons they were there to make sure that anyone who happened to somehow get on top of the wall or over it was shot on sight.

    They were an adjunct only to the wall. The wall itself was the main barrier.
    Would people attempting to climb over a border wall be shot? No. They would be arrested immediately. That doesn't lessen the difficulty of getting over a forty foot high wall.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  3. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Dude, nuking, invading and occupying Mexico would be effective in slowing illegal immigration, but is it the most fiscally responsible way to do so? Is it the most effective long-term solutions? Is it in the best long-term interests of "We, the People" over other solutions?

    Building a few walls in cities is one thing, but over 1900 miles worth? Please show me the numbers since no one else can do it.
     
  4. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Will do. Please learn what a factual argument is along with the term "fiscal responsibility". I know most LWers know what spendthrift and emotional rhetoric mean and I'm sure you do too.

    Awesome. This thread has Pro-Wallers advocating death squads roaming America like we're a Third World Shithole, saying it would be effective like the Berlin Wall and now you saying anyone who crosses it should be shot on site.

    "How can you shoot women and children?"
    "You don't lead them as much".

    The true hypocrisy? Most pro-Wallers are anti-abortionists because "life is sacred".
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  5. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No one has said it's going to be 1900 miles long.

    The point is to close down the border securely, instead of the half-ass manner in which it has been done for the last 50 years.

    In some cases, like the San Diego wall, the return on that investment is blindingly obvious. There are other places we can put physical barriers, and places where such physical barriers are unnecessary.

    They are testing and studying the best way to prevent these walls to be breached, which is far more than what was done with previous barriers.

    When do we get serious about stopping the bleeding? When we're spending $400 billion a year in illegal alien costs? When 100,000 people are killed every year by mexican criminals and drug trafficking?

    Enough is enough. Time to stop throwing Motrin at the problem, and I know you get the inference.
     
  6. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    A rational approach to illegal immigration is worse? Amazing logic.
     
  7. Colombine

    Colombine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The wall seems like a stupid idea to me. It's purely symbolic and will have a minimal impact on illegal immigration. That's been falling year on year for more than a decade anyway and I imagine the current administration's rhetoric is doing more to dissuade people from coming here than any bunch of bricks ever will.

    If President Trump wants the wall that badly, why doesn't he just get Mexico to pay for it? That's what he promised, emphatically, on the campaign trail so why can't he do it since he's such a savvy negotiator?
     
  8. Your Best Friend

    Your Best Friend Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I do.

    Well since it seems like you missed it the first time let me repeat that I am not in favor of shooting people who attempt to scale a proposed wall.
    But I guess it's easier to "win" a discussion when you make up your own facts that you can assign to the other guys.

    Let me also repeat, since other people's comments seem to fly straight through your head without stopping for any absorption or comprehension by you, that the Berlin Wall was effective in that people trying to get over it were shot but that in no way means that's how and why a border wall would be effective. The physical size of the wall alone would be a tremendous deterrent, just like the Berlin Wall.
    And just like all those security walls in antiquity I cited (which you undoubtedly ignored because it proved my point).

    That we would arrest people caught climbing over the wall and not shoot them seems to have made no impact on your brain at all is amazing! Well, not amazing so much as sad and predictable. And lastly I am only pro wall in the sense that I acknowledge it would work
    but think other less costly methods would work just as well.

    Soak it all in and don't act like you haven't been told over and over again how mistaken you are.
     
  9. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am guessing you are confusing annual with daily.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-trump-mexico-wall/how-many-people-currently-cross/
     
  10. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not confusing anything, it's basic math.

    [​IMG]

    In 2000, for example, there were 1.6 million people arrested crossing the border. When you divide that by 365 (days in a year, in case thats confusing), you get 4384 arrests per day.

    In 2013, it was 1096 people per day caught and arrested.

    That's the number of people who were actually caught. Clearly the fact that we have 12+ million of them currently in the country, that number is much higher per day.
     
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  11. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    Our approach now to illegal immigration is anything but rational. "Good fences make good neighbors"
     
  12. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The federal government should outlaw fences if the Democratic Party is correct. Not only do fences accomplish nothing, the only reason anyone puts up a fence is because the person is a racist trying to keep people of different races out, which doesn't work anyway. Outlawing fences around homes, businesses and government buildings would go along way to eliminating racism.

    This anti-racism law should also outlaw any doors having locks. People can use security cameras and drones to stop unwelcome people from entering their home, business or government building. Fences and door locks on for racist reasons and do not stop anyone. The Democratic Party and most Democrats will tell you that is a proven fact.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
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  13. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And of course by rational you mean throwing open the borders on a special edition of Oprah.
     
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  14. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, what Democrats claim they want is a border patrol station at least every 1000 feet with officers there 24/7 ready to instantly rush out to arrest anyone who takes one step over the boundary, plus thousands of security cameras, motion sensors and hundreds of drones flying the border at all times. But what they and their super rich globalist masters really want is open borders for limitless cheap immigrant labor to keep wages as low as possible and give employers 100% power and employees 0% power - and to add millions of uneducated socialists onto voter rolls for Democrats.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
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  16. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Other than old people crossing the border. Oprah says old people need to die.
     
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  17. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Absolute proof that president Obama is a racist. The wall will stop no one. It is just a racist statement he is making.
     
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  18. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is the criteria "her age + 1"?
     
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  19. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed. At best, spending billions of taxpayer dollars on the Wall every year will stop less than half if illegals coming into the US. No one knows what percentage of the 170,000 illegals crossing the Mexican border each year will be stopped. Maybe 90%, maybe only 50%. We'll still have to round up and deport all the other illegals plus enact laws to prevent them from coming in. The fiscally responsible way to stop illegal immigration is to pass and enforce those laws first, then build the wall later if it's still necessary.

    I'd also rather see a virtual wall around the entire USA instead of building a 1900+ mile "monument to stupidity" on the Mexican border. The lasting legacy of Trump's Presidency will be listed under the title "Trump's Folly" in the history books.

    https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...ans-actually-cross-border-illegally/91280026/
    That is confirmed by a new internal Department of Homeland Security report, obtained by The Arizona Republic and azcentral.com, that concludes ramped-up border enforcement is working, helping to reduce successful crossings to one-tenth of what they were a decade earlier across the southern U.S. border with Mexico. The research is based on complicated mathematical calculations using published and internal Border Patrol data.

    But the bottom line is this: Far fewer migrants from Mexico are successfully entering the country illegally than a decade ago because stepped-up border enforcement means fewer are trying, more are getting caught and more are giving up.


    Trump's probable legacy
    Trump Folly.jpg
     
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  20. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ummm....yet you keep dancing around the idea. Why?

    BTW, still waiting for any pro-Waller to give factual evidence that spending BILLIONS on a wall is better than the other ideas presented or what percentage of illegals coming into the US will be stopped by it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  21. Your Best Friend

    Your Best Friend Well-Known Member

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    I added emphasis to the key point.
     
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  22. Your Best Friend

    Your Best Friend Well-Known Member

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    Ummm...because you inexplicably keep bringing it up causing me to deal with your imbecilic nonsense.
    Why not show me one single comment where I endorse the idea of shooting people caught scaling the proposed border wall?
    I await a rational reply.


    I've already said there are better ways to secure the border than with a giant wall. Look elsewhere.
     
  23. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You blinked. :)
    Something we can agree upon. So have I. That's my entire point. Let's execute those "better ways" first then see if we still need to spend Billions on a wall.
     
  24. Your Best Friend

    Your Best Friend Well-Known Member

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    I'm convinced. How do you convince Trump now (unless he's not really serious)?
     
  25. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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