Is there a Right to own a gun; Ethics of Gun Ownership

I know you don't like to do this, but if you look seriously at the discussions of rights and freedoms the Founders were engaged in you see that what was important was not the list of rights, but the list of what powers the government would have regarding regulation of those rights. Look at the Ninth Amendment: they wanted it clear that just because they prioritized certain rights to be codified in the Constitution did not give the government the power to infringe upon other rights.

In the end, we were intended to be a free society. "Free" means that you can do whatever you'd like, provided what you do doesn't impose on others. In short, you have the right to take responsibility for yourself. We don't need a "list" to protect your right to hang from your ceiling naked and yodel Tchaikovsky; you simply have the right to do it if that's what pleases you... right up to the point where it starts to keep your neighbors up at night.

Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, my friend.

 

You are drawing a straight line between self-defence and guns but I am not going to play that stupid game with you.

Americans are obsessed with "standing their ground" as if walking away is worse than death. You get into someone's face because some guy coughs too loud at the restaurant and you think it makes you a little hero for the moment. But the guy isn't afraid of you and he's standing his ground. Anyway, it was you who "called him out" and he can't let you get away with it. So there you are ... two idiots who can't walk away because they both think they will look like cowards. A perfect time to pull out the shooting irons.

America suffers from acute inferiority complex. We could discuss at great lengths why that is, from where it stems, etc. but there it is. You don't need guns. You need an education. You need to have a break from the daily bullying and skirmishing to find a parking space. You need a break from your women and children who expect you to be a hero, not "back down" and protect them from the guy that you (yourself) tried to intimidate. You don't need guns, America. You need someone to put their arms around you and tell you that you don't have to pretend you're Billy the Kid or Joan Wayne in order to be appreciated. But are any of you listening? Nope.

 

If you think that scenarios like the one you refer to are common and the reason for our gun homicide stats, you couldn't be more wrong. Our gun crime stats are inflated by inner city gang and drug activity, and these criminals are barred from legally owning or carrying firearms in the first place.

 

You have an immature 9 year old boy's view on life, do grow up, there's a good chap.

I have never done anything like you mention.

At age 9, I was attacked by an older boy, perhaps 14 or 15, he tried to slash my throat with a knife, I was fast then, I moved slightly back and grabbed his wrist on the follow through and placed my hand on his elbow, a slight effort and I could have snapped it like a carrot.

I felt sorry for him, I shoved his arm a little, he yelped and dropped the knife and ran away, a lady yelled at me, what are you doing ?
I asked her to call the Police, of course they arrived way too late.

I never fight unless it is unavoidable, I have been attacked, and provoked, and not used any force if it was not absolutely necessary.

A Gun is a last resort.

 

You are full of yourself & the brown stuff. In fact, you are up to eyebrows in it.

I understand Berkowitz a bit deeper than that and I can tell you that you are off the mark. I can also tell you why you are wrong but I refuse to talk about him in more personal terms because it isn't your business to know any more than you think you know. If you want to know more then you'll have to make an application to correspond with him and see how close you can get to him. If you ask him the right questions he could give you honest answers but don't expect him to tell you everything. For more, you have to read between the lines but from what you have just written I doubt very much you want to know any more than what you've read in the press.

 

Oddly enough, my deceased wife was a Quaker who told me she’d not defend herself. I one asked her, what if one of the girls was being attacked and faced rape... she said she’d kill whoever tried. When I began training the girls in self defense at a young age, she never once objected. The girls were allowed their religious freedom, their right to choose...neighter of us pushed a belief on them. Neither are Quakers.
My wife’s were Quakers. But strangely, at least if you consider their supposed belief, including the Bible as the absolute authority and word of God, her Da was an ex fighter pilot that had served in Korea during the war. He had a huge library, thousands of books, all of military subject matter from the Napoleonic Wars, revolutionary wars and civil war (one of the best private collection’s I have seen) and also had a large,valuable collection of military artifacts including letters penned by Napoleon, Robert E, Grant, J Davis. He met knew many WWII aces and people like Dolittle, and Germans like Rall and Garland for which he learned German so he could correspond with (saw the letters). I found it contradictory and once asked how he could reconcile his interests and experience against being a Quaker...I didn’t get an answer. On day, a couple years after being married, while at their home for dinner, knowing of my background, he proudly pulled out what was his .45 Service Colt while we were in his study saying, ‘I have one... don’t tell anyone, particularly, my wife’. Reminded me of those that are Christian one day a week. I asked why he had it... he replied, ‘just in case’.
In an arguement with my wife over my collection, a point of contention between us, I replied to some forgotten remark by my wife saying ‘it’s people like me, that Protect those that won’t defend themselves so they can live to declare themselves to believe it’s wrong to harm another in defense; that Quakers exist to practice their beliefs because they are sheltered by others with guns’.... it didn’t go down well.
Our species has evolved without natural defenses, shared by most animals species, to protect from predators. While we lack strength, large teeth, claws, poison delivery systems, speed, or reproduction numbers, we developed a brain that allowed us to adapt, develop, and share technology to our survival needs, creating weapons as one of those adaptations, to provide for defense against predators and allow us to become predators. I have often quipped, weapons designed for self defense/hunting is why the human species survived and that the right of self defense using weapons is the first natural right of our species, a right we inherit from our ancestors, a right that in large part defines us, a right that long precedes any invention like written law. And, is more prevalent among human populations than any prohibition to self defense.

 

You are full of yourself & the brown stuff. In fact, you are up to eyebrows in it.

 

You aren't describing "stand your ground" at all. Stand your ground means that you don't have to make yourself vulnerable to an attack if retreating would do so. Stand your ground means you don't have to leave a position of strength or safety to make yourself more vulnerable than if you didn't.

 

" You are full of yourself & the brown stuff. In fact, you are up to eyebrows in it. "

Jealous much ?
Most do littles are.
I am proud of myself and my record number of rescues,
and anybody could have done what I have done and more !!!!!!

But they didn't !!!!

So, tell me again who is full of it.....
Because it sure is not me.

 

You are being very dishonest now. I lived several years in the US. I have also travelled extensively OVERLAND across every continent except South America. I have witnessed aggressive people here and there but NEVER so often as in the US. There is a profound difference between Americans and the rest of the world ... what of it I have seen. Now it has to be said that middle-class Englishmen on the High Street on a Saturday night, (once he gets a few drinks in him) makes a dreadful sight to see but Americans go about it every day, all day, all night. Even sober. I have been to war with the bullets flying and I have been held at gunpoint in war-torn countries but never .... never ..... never ..... have I ever had a citizen point a gun at me for no reason anywhere else than in the US - twice!

Look, mate, you can tally up the numbers, the statistics, and the percentages till the cows come home but Americans are so damned aggressive, frustrated, and careless that they should not be allowed within a thousand miles of any weapon at all. Road rage, post offices, kindergartens, primary schools, high schools, colleges, universities, churches, cinemas, drive-bys, shopping malls ..... Jesus H. Christ!

 

You are full of yourself & the brown stuff. In fact, you are up to eyebrows in it.

 

My experiences when young in the North of Ireland were similar. Similar to how I acquired a PPK, that became my companion for years. And, the part of your post I set in Bold is a solid core of my personal code, one I have never broken...and one I share with others.

 

Wowsers !

 

Anecdote, not data. "Americans go about it every day, all day, all night. Even sober." Some very small number, sure. Anyone that pointed a gun at you was committing a crime if you weren't attacking them. Did you call the police?

Do you have any real data to suggest that this is a "common event"?

Yes, I will continue to use statistics and data. That's the way science works. Interestingly, your government feels the same way about your countrymen as you feel about the US as they made it very clear that not one single ordinary Englishman is trustworthy enough to own a handgun. Even your Olympic team has to practice elsewhere.

 

Ah now, ... you watch too many Westerns. The depictions of HollyWood U... yeah, they are real.
As for inferiority complex of Americans, I hear more from other countries referring to Americans, the ‘ugly American’ in far different terms.
If there is inferiority exhibited, I see it more from other countries, particularly, from the UK (who’s once world dominance is now far diminished) and AU, that struggle with being irrelevant, and dependent on the US for continued existence. I see it from those in the UK and AU that post frequently here attempting to condescend to Americans because they want to convince Americans they are less ‘civilized’. Yet, when most Americans here such condescending opinions from
from the distant peanut galleries, they either ignore them or laugh, more envisioning a tiny, yapping dog chasing a large pack leader for attention. American inferiority complex, sure now... what color are the unicorns in your reality?

 

The tide will turn for most of them once NATO has been dismantled.

Paisley.

 

Wow. I'd hoped we could have a rational conversation about this (our commiseration regarding fine southwestern dining was quite enjoyable for me) but you clearly have a deep-seated neurosis about this whole idea. You disparage me and my beliefs in all kinds of ways, from outright declaring how "stupid" I am to mocking my education and spouting off about ludicrous scenarios that have no basis in reality. Frankly you demonstrate a level of emotionalism and ignorance on this subject I find astonishing and more than a little offensive.

If you want to have an intelligent, adult discussion about this issue, I'm all for it; but that's going to require a little mutual respect, isn't it?

 

Citizens that are licensed to legally carry are not the one that are contributing to the gun crime stats.

 

If you think I am going to lie, then you can forget it.

 

It's the people who don't own guns who do not 'contribute' to gun crime.

 

Good luck with the troll.
How many is that now? 6? 7?
Lost count, I guess...

 

"Americans are obsessed with "standing their ground" as if walking away is worse than death."

You get into someone's face because some guy coughs too loud at the restaurant, and you think it makes you a little hero for the moment.

But the guy isn't afraid of you, and he's standing his ground.

Anyway, it was you who "called him out" and he can't let you get away with it.

So there you are ...

two idiots who can't walk away because they both think they will look like cowards.

A perfect time to pull out the shooting irons."

***********************************************

Proof, that you do not know the difference between Murder and Personal or self defense.

Coughing too loudly ?
Really ?

Again, no grounds for a confrontation of any kind.
No words, nothing.

Leave, if coughing bothers you that much, or stay home.

 

"Results. CHL holders were much less likely than nonlicensees to be convicted of crimes. Most nonholder convictions involved higher-prevalence crimes (burglary, robbery, or simple assault). CHL holders’ convictions were more likely to involve lower-prevalence crimes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3518334/

 

I've never asked you to lie, nor would I engage in such behavior. I approached you honestly and respectfully in hopes of having a constructive exchange.

Calling people stupid and judging them without even trying to have a rational give-and-take with them isn't telling the truth. It's needlessly combative and the very definition of self-righteous ignorance... and it also is promulgating falsehood instead of pursuing truth. So much for not wanting to lie, eh?